Archive through February 04, 2008

[aaytay]

Ken-
I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how that's a hydro tranny. I'm not saying your wrong, it could be, and the serial number is from the 125-series, but how does the reduction gear and pump get fluid if it's closed off from the rest of the tranny?

The more I think about it, that's GOT to be a gear drive...

 

[digger]

I really hate to bring this up but.
What does all this have to do with Pulling and Hot Rodding?

 

[kweaver]

Well since you asked ...

Don't pullers change internals to get a stronger rear end. I thought they could help me out quicker with better info but I guess they're complaing since none spoke up huh.

 

[digger]

I don't know many pullers that use hydros!

 

[bmoore]

I'd say that Hot Rodding is anything done to improve any performance aspect of the orginal vehicle. Updating an older housing with newer, stronger internals would fit that definition.

 

[gklapp]

I agree, the hydro IS a Cub Cadet transmission and people want to know how to improve one for pulling, just cause you havn't heard of anyone using it doesn't mean that no one is using one. I think most people just don't know enough about them too venture into unknown territory. I myself am interested and have the components to build one for a puller, just need the time and space and trying to glean as much info as possible before starting on it. The fine spline rears come from the hydros so the only issue is in the front half, easy to change out and plenty are available cheap. I toyed a little with the speed cam adjustment on an Ariens G.T. I have (similar tranny I think) awhile ago and found that it can go much faster forward while sacrificing the reverse speed but I don't use it for pulling and don't know how it'd work out (I returned it to the stock setting). The following is forwarded from the G.T.Pulling site from Merv a hydro puller;

I pulled a 1650 with a 20hp. command & had good
results , to make a hydro pull U need to change the linkage so U have
more travel & smoother speed change , 1st is remove the peddle
linkage & mechanism on the swash arm , replace it with a rod directly
to the swash arm & drill a hole in the swash arm to fasten to , its
also nice to have the rod adjustable , drill a new hole where it
fastens under the dash 1" closer to where it pivets , now U got
better control of the hydro , about 1" for reverse & 3-4" of slide
for foward , nows when the fun begins , Merv

 

[gklapp]

I've been digging thru some old messages for hydro pulling info and came acrossed one on the ASAE competitions using mostly hydros. I hear they "eat up" horsepower but wonder what is actually happening and if one is "blown" what was the part or chain of events that failed. People dis them but how many have actually tried to remedy any problems or to improve their efficiency. Myself, I like to see the variety of different combinations in successful pullers, seems to me that where there is a will there is a way.

Re: Hydro puller


> > I pull a cub with a hydro & it takes more hp. to run one &
getting it setup rite, raising the charge pressure is very important
& then getting the forward lever more stroke & the pump less stroke
so U can feather the pump better , because if U don't, ether U got
too much rpm or too much hydro, & U need to be able control both , I
used a sythetic hydro oil to keep the temp. down & wearing the piston
groups & plates , LOL , Happy Hydroing , Merv
> >
--- In [email protected], "spongeballer"
<moxxen@h...> wrote:
> The thing about hydro pullers is that at the end of a run, the
> slippage in the motor that the efficienct is totally bad. Im
talking
> like 30-40%. Compared to a mechanical or gear jammer which is moe
> like 80-90%. The key is keeping the motor (not the pump) spinning
> at a higher RPM. The higher the RPM the more efficient the
> transmission. At this last years ASAE Quarter scale tractor
> competition out of 21 teams that pulled, only about 5 were
> mechanical transmissions. Yet the top few spots in the pulling
> competition were hydraulic.
>
> In summary, yes hydros can pull as well as gear jammers, but there
> is a lot more work in getting a hydro to that point.
>
> P.S.- travis, try a larger displacement motor. That would help
keep
> you pump at a higher rpm.

 

[wcompton]

George-
I've been involved in the ASAE competitions, the hydros were not the way to go IMHO. The mechanical CVT drives (either by belt or chain) were the winners. The year I pulled we had a gear drive, and if we would have had the right gears in our first one (and if some idiot didn't turn on the vibration on the compactor) we'd have won the year we pulled.

The year I pulled UW Madison had a CVT with a gear drive. It was an excelent setup.

 

[gklapp]

Thanks Wyatt. It seems a shame that maybe half of the Cubs made (hydrostatic) are deemed unworthy for tractor pulling. I wouldn't even be surprized if many members had several hydros/tractors on hand, are any of these used for the "plow days". Even the gear drive transaxles need extensive/expensive modifications to make them suitable for pulling with many different vendors making a variety of hi quality aftermarket parts and complete transaxle assemblies available and yet NO one that I'm aware of has anything for high performance hydros. I've not heard of any internal modifications made or replacement for a better/bigger more efficient design. In a parts schematic they don't look that complicated, is it such a feeble design that there is no hope of improvement ?? With so many hydro units easily available, compact size and easily shipped it would seem an opportunity for someone to offer a tricked out unit for sale, they're small enough to even use billet for fabrication to house a bigger pump/motor and/or bigger ports. It doesn't sound like the back half is any problem with many pullers using the fine spline setups in 40hp. Altereds. Does anyone know where the problem/shortcoming is, there must be a solution somewhere ?? Industry uses hydrostatics everday, why can't we ?? As for the CVT's what units are they using. Thanks

 

[gklapp]

found a description of the axial piston pump on Wikipedia, this sheds light on why the throw on the speed control cam is changed;

A common variable displacement pump used in vehicle technology is the axial piston pump. This pump has several pistons in cylinders arranged parallel to each other and rotating around a central shaft. A swashplate at one end is connected to the pistons. As the pistons rotate, the angle of the plate causes them to move in and out of their cylinders. A rotary valve at the opposite end from the swashplate alternately connects each cylinder to the fluid supply and delivery lines. By changing the angle of the swashplate, the stroke of the pistons can be varied continuously. If the swashplate is perpendicular to the axis of rotation, no fluid will flow. If it is at a sharp angle, a large volume of fluid will be pumped. Some pumps allow the swashplate to be moved in both directions from the zero position, pumping fluid in either direction without reversing the rotation of the pump.

Piston pumps can be made variable-displacement by inserting springs inline with the pistons. The displacement is not positively controlled, but decreases as back-pressure increases.

 

[bsturgill]

Any you guys have any info on Command V TWINS you would like to share??? I got some ideas including a 30hp Dual carb and intake on a 20hp stock engine

 

[cwestfall]

New pulling parts now ready visit my site at www.cubclassics.com e-mail me at [email protected]

 

[gbrown]

I just bought a 1450 from a guy up here in Omaha and it has some problems, i.e. sitting for ten years in his garage. I know that the gas, fuel lines, oil, and carb were probably in bad shape. The motor looked bad, the front axle was covered in tones of old oil, otherwise the chassis and rear end were all looking, and looked complete. First thing I did was take the 14 Kohler out of the chassis, so I could have a closer look at things, easier to look the motor through on the bench vs. in the tractor. Needless to say the motor was in bad shape from sitting, it still turns over but the rear main seal fell out when taking the motor out of the tractor. So, until I had time this summer, and warmer, I was going to put my B&S 18hp v-twin vanguard in the tractor so I could still get some mowing done before I can finish the Kohler rebuild, yep, I still need to mow with this guy. After making some motor mounts for the Vanguard and getting everything bolted in place I noticed that the Vanguard is a lot slimmer then the Kohler, therefore the drive shaft is about 3 or so inches short of the flywheel. I guess my question is, how do I get the flywheel to bolt up to the drive shaft??. Is there some adapter for this problem, or know of anyone with this same problem?. If you need some picture of what im talking about, let me know and I will do my best to take some for you. Any help would be great!!!..

 

[dmull]

Check the parts off a 582, as they used a Briggs. Also, there were a couple later MTD cyclops tractors that used Briggs motors..like 1641.

 

[tschweizer]

I'm told the 16, 18, and 20hp vangaurds are the same engine with a difference in the throttle stop. Anyone know if this is true?

 

[ldunlap]

Travis,
The 16 hp Vanguards have a smaller bore and stroke than the 18 and 20 hp. The 18 and 20 have the same bore and stroke but the 20 hp has a bigger carb.

 

[tschweizer]

Thats what I needed. Thanks

 

[sblunier]

Shifter locks for "user" tractors.

Do any of you pullers have a design to lock the trans in 2nd gear that would be applicable to everyday use, such as plowing??? My 582 has trouble staying in gear on a hard pull (I've already fixed and welded the forks) and I'd like a lock, but I'd like it to be easy to unlock as well.

I'd appreciate any comments or suggestions.

 

[mgonitzke]

Steve B.-

I think someone told me once that stronger detent springs would help. I need to do something as well, my 582 has the same problem.

 

[wcompton]

Steve-
Fixing up the forks helps, quite a bit. When I pulled in the ASAE competitions we did the following: 4-speed machined/welded forks, hardened top shaft, aftermarket (new) gears, tougher detent springs, as well as made our shift rods out of hardened steel rod. It shifted very tough since we didn't put a generous radius on the detents on the rods. The transmission shifted tough, and at first didn't seem to jump out of gear, but after only a few pulls it started jumping out of gear. From that experience I'd say there's no 100% cure, and if there was I'd be worried about snapping off the end of the shifter inside the transmission housing (and the carnage that follows).

I've been pondering the exact scenario for my own tractor. About the only thing I can think of would be to add an "H" pattern plate on the frame tunnel with detents for a spring-loaded collar. The action would be similar to the lead screw "shifter" on a machine lathe. It would have the drawback of needing to pull back the collar before shifting, but on paper I would think the idea has merit.