Archive through December 17, 2004

[jmacdonald]

Dave K. How foolish of me of course the 70/100 had only a single stage snow thrower. I stand corrected.
jimmac

 

[tcbusch]

Zach,
Grab a pair of jumper cables. Using only the red clamps, put one clamp on the B side of the solenoid. Make sure it is clamped good. Now using the other red clamp touch the A side of the solenoid. The S/G should spin. Did it? If it does spin then touch the same clamp to post Q on the solenoid. The S/G should spin. Did it?

If it did spin on the first test but not on the second test then its the solenoid. Try testing the solenoid ground. To do this remove the jumper cables. Take one black clamp and put it on the negative side of the battery. Take the other black clamp and clamp it hard on the body of the solenoid. Make sure the clamp does NOT touch any of the terminals, only the body of the solenoid. Turn the key. Did the S/G turn? If so then the solenoid is not grounded, so remove it and sand the base and the frame to get a better connection. If it didn't turn then the solenoid is bad and needs to be replaced.

Back to the first test. If the S/G did not turn when you put the red clamps between the A and B posts of the solenoid then its a S/G problem. However I doubt it. If the S/G doesn't turn then check the voltage at the starter K when you short A and B. It should be at 12 volts. Also check the frame of the starter. If the frame is not 0 volts when you short A and B then the starter and/or motor ground is bad. Again, I doubt this is the problem.

Hope this is clear.

Test these and let me know what happens.

 

[bmcmeen]

Hmmm, could it be THE Rob Dehli?

Just reading the Sunday Chicago Tribune...

"The buzz [in town] has been, 'Leave us alone,'" said Rob Dehli, general manager of K***-FM...

 

[hsimon]

Can a starter selonoid from a QL be used on a 71??? My 71 has a bad selonoid and I have a good one for a QL sitting in my toolbox.

 

[kweaver]

Hugh all selonoids are just heavy duty relays , some have a "+"/"-" winding on the coil to pull in the contacts , others use the metal mounting tab for the "-". The all incased molded ones use the 2 terminals , some metal tabbed ones use both. So in other words , if it's a good one use it !

 

[snelson]

Why can't I post in the For Sale page?

 

[kweaver]

I've got a question(s) for the masses or just one person that knows for sure ... I'll take either
1) Are all of the mechanical PTO's the same diameter ?
2) I have 2 here that are different on the face of them , one has 3 notches and the other is smooth are there any reasons for this ?

 

[kweaver]

Scott are ya a paid member ?

 

[wcompton]

FWIW-
There had been some talk about easier starting using something other than HyTran, I've been using Type F in my 169, temp this morning is -3°F and the 169 starts just like it usually did in this cold temp. IT DOESN'T, well at least not without the aid of the jumper pack.

 

[dkamp]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Bryan!

Frankly, I don't fart with SGs, and tend to save my belches for better occasions. I've been blessed with a really good automotive electricals rebuilder about 4 blocks from me, and they do great work FAST, so I tote it to them. I have, however, taught many classes on motor rebuilds, but nothing that small. Actually, if it doesn't take a good-sized Hyster to lift the end-bells, it's not in my league... but anyway:

Zak- John's right- you shouldn't see that much voltage drop with a good battery, good harness, etc... either you've got a SUBSTANTIAL amount of resistance in one of the battery cables, in the return cable or frame, engine bonding cable, or the battery's a pooch. Based on the numbers you measured, dollar says that it's the (-) battery cable, or the engine bonding cable. Check these out really good before condemning the SG. FWIW... my 12-volt garden-tractor battery drops to 9.75v under cold cranking conditions. When I use the big boat (500 MCA Grp 27) to crank the 109, it drops from 13.2v down to 11.5v.

BTW- got 26-12-12's mounted on Loader-Mutt today- now for the big fronts!!!

 

[zfriedman]

Back from the garage, did some more tests.

John - For clarification 5.5 S means 5.5 volts when the key switch is at Start. If I get 12 V out the battery could it be bad? Should I be measuring some other measure with my Junko-Multimeter (ammperage)? I assume the 4 connections that could pull down the voltage are the ones that Dave Kamp pointed out later.

Terry - The S/G didn't turn nor did I get any jump in Voltage on the meter at point K at either test. When I was rewiring I sanded down the base of the solenoid as well as the tractor frame, but I did the test anyway and still got nothing. The last part you said, however confused me.
"Also check the frame of the starter. If the frame is not 0 volts when you short A and B then the starter and/or motor ground is bad." The frame of the starter is just...the frame? Maybe? I checked for zero volts, but I don't know if I got zero because everything is happy or if I'm testing the wrong place.

Hugh/Ken - While this isn't really my post, it seems relevant. If I were to replace the solenoid, assuming I can't find one used, you are saying I can just get one for pretty much any tractor? I don't know what QL is so maybe I'm missing something obvious.

Dave - OK, you mentioned those four connections, and I haven't checked em' yet cause your post wasn't up yet, I'm going to check them now. I understand 'battery cable' and 'frame', but you lost me at return cable and engine bonding cable. Whos who? One of those is the ground cable going from the main (-) battery ground to the ground up near the headlights, right?

Bryan - I guess I rather not try to fix an electrical generator of anykind, good point. And whatever you say, I don't think I'll be a big fan of Mrs. Green Pants any time soon. Its a generational thing.

And as a more general question, if I were to remove my S/G will I have a hell of a time putting it back on? It seems like its under tension from the belt.

 

[bmcmeen]

Zach -

If you loosen all three bolts on the S/G, you'll find it easy to tip it towards the engine, thus releasing the belt tension. Unhook the belt from the S/G pulley, then take the bolts all the way out.

Putting it back on is, as they say, the reverse of disassembly

BTW, as the manual says, DO NOT use a pry bar or such to try and get tension on the belt. Especially with the cheap bushings - it'll eat into those and you'll destroy the end cap and perhaps even the shaft. BTDT. Just pull on the S/G until you can only deflect the belt about 1/4" or so, then tighten everything down.

And the generatoinal thing is exactly what I'm talking about...

Wyatt -

3+ over here, 169 started up alright with only being "plugged in" overnight - it coughed and sputtered, but then again, it always does when it's been sitting for a few weeks.

Are you starting to understand YMMV?

Dave K2 -

Good to hear. We wouldn't want to have to refer to you as Jovian

 

[pbrouillette]

Hey y'all, I got it! The hydro is adjusted to perfection now and I got rid of that pesky rattle. After pulling the tranny again I realized that it was not necessary to drop it for this adjustment. Works great now though. The exaust box rattle is gone. What I did was pop rivet two 1 foot sections of 1/4X1" steel to the box which effectively strengthened it and stopped the noise. Thanks for the advice. Paul

 

[thoffman]

Bryan/Wyatt,
What the hell are you guys doing trying to start those Cubbies up when it's that cold?? I know there isn't enough snow in Bryan's area. How about you Wyatt? Time to throw another log on the fire. Ahhhhhhhh heat.

Zack,
Lets see 70/100 were from '63-'65, that would have made me about 10-13. Ever hear of "the age of puberty"? I was just about there. Come to think of it, "Mrs. Green pants" kinda' has that Peggy Flemming look. Hubba-hubba.

(Message edited by thoffman on December 19, 2004)

 

[wcompton]

Tom-
No snow, just been playing with types of fluid and thought that leaving it out overnight below zero would be a good test. The 169's normal home is in the garage with the pickup, a balmy 60°F.

My only problem now is that I seem to have stuck the float AGAIN in the carb. Don't know whether it's the float or the carb casting, but my 1" #30 does it repeatedly and my 15/16" #30 doesn't give me problems. I'll probably go back to the 15/16" carb, can't tell them apart as far as power goes, the 15/16" #30 seems to run at lower RPMs smoother, which makes sense.

 

[jbliler]

Bryan, thanks for keeping everything on the screen. Seems thaat every time I play with the settings on this damn thing there is hell to pay. I am sure there is a way but it is usually not worth it.

Wish one of us could spend an hour or two with Zachary's cub. We have all been there. It is just really hard to deal with over the net here. Would be interesting to swap on another starter to see what is going on. If I could I would loan him one. I have much praise for him sticking with it. The yellow fever must be bad!!!!!

 

[dkamp]

Zak-
There SHOULD be a ground wire that goes from the engine block, to the tractor frame... on the right side, under the SG. See, just 'cause the engine's bolted to the frame, doesn't mean it's making good contact... typically... it doesn't. This ground wire makes sure that your ground-pathway doesn't end up going through the driveline, through tranny (or hydro), through gears, bearings, etc., to the transaxle case, to the frame. Or through the choke and throttle-cables... it'll weld 'em together right quick, or pit 'em slowly over a period of time, and then yield a traumatic failure, stuck throttle, fried choke...

The biggest culprit always seems to be the battery + cable, or the battery - cable, either where it connects to the battery, or where the battery - cable connects to the frame. Reason being- the battery exudes hydrogen gas ('scuse me) in the charge process. It also vents a little H2SO4 vapour, which finds it's way between the battery cable connector (usually Cu2) and battery post (Pb), where it turns the latter into something like Copper Sulfate (slightly blue solid film, sometimes with fuzz) on a thin, but hard film of PbSO4 (lead(II) sulfate)... neither of which are nearly as good a conductor as they are wonderful insulators.

Also, when moisture (by capillary action) is drawn down the cable, the copper degrades into Cupric Oxide (Cu2O), which is a green powder, which falls to the bottom of the cable and becomes about as useful as wet-sand.

So, one thing you can try to do, is put a jumper cable from the battery - post, to the engine block... make sure they're clamped down tight, and bitin' into raw metal good... then try your other tests... if it has a change-effect, you've got ground-path problems.

And if you haven't had enough school studies, and the language above changes your admiration level for Ms. Green Pants, go check out http://www.utdallas.edu/~parr/chm1311/13110614.html and find out wether I screwed up all the chemical language... after all, when I was last in a Chemistry class, you weren't born yet, and Ms Green Pants did her final feature in Playboy Magazine... and the PANTS stayed home.

Bryan-
Hmmm... Jovian... well, the Chili reference would probably suit the 'great BROWN spot' rather than As-trological 'Great Red Spot'... but Emporer Jovian's moniker 'protector domesticus' might suit me... just not in enclosed spaces...

 

[digger]

Wyatt,
Me thinks that is WAY TO MUCH information than we all really need!
<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

just been playing with types of fluid and thought that leaving it out overnight below zero would be a good test.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
I really think we all know what the end resul would be!

 

[digger]

Tom H.
I went out this morning and even went down to the farm and tried starting 14 in a row and only 1 failed the test, course 3 were in the heated garage and it was 8 below here, grin

 

[tturner]

Don't say 8 below now I'm freezing.