Adding a loader to a 1712

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Haldex High Pressure Hydraulic Gear Pump .517 Cu. In., Model# 10567, * Cubic Inch Size: .517
* Flow at 1800 RPM: 4.0 GPM
* Flow at 3600 RPM: 8.0 GPM
* Maximum PSI Cont.: 1200
* Maximum PSI Intmt.: 2000
* O-Ring Port Size, SAE: 7/8in.-14
I have used this pump on my 129 loader mounted under the pto on front of the 129.I would not weld a pulley onto the pump shaft as that will damage the pump seals and bearing,my pulley is keyed onto the shaft. My cylinders are 2"x16",2 for lift and 2 for bucket control.I have not had an issue with the cylinders being slammed because of to much pressure at higher rpms.I find the loader controls slow at lower rpms and it needs half wot to work smoothly.With this pump if I lift the loader arms and turn the bucket at less than 1/2 wot the bucket will take fluid away for lift and the loader will slow way down when the bucket is moved and the loader arms will drop .I think the pressure relief in my controls are set at 1200 psi. I think you should go and have a look at the plans P F Engineering sells,there is a lot of helpful info on that site on loaders. If you need pictures I can take some of my 129 loader for you. Good luck

 

[mwheeland]

got some time tonight to look at my cylinders. This is just ball park, but her it goes

Two cylinders 19 in. x 1.75 total cu.in.= 45.72x2= 91.44cu.in.
Two cylinders 15 in. x 1.75 total cu.in.=36.10x2=72.2

Comes to a total volume of 163.64 cu.in.
Found a culculator online to do the math. Don't brame me, if it's wrong. Ha Ha Ha

I was looking at the pump too. The pressure is about right for my loader. But I was worry about the gpm.
Would there might be a trade off on the pressure and gpm?

Could it not slam the cylinder because of the lower psi.

Donald, was the pump that was mean for the loader or was it a upgrade? Thanks

I'm still not sure about what pump to buy. Keep the info come and thanks. Matt

 

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Matthew D. Wheeland
I chose this pump for a few reasons.one is the type of bearing in the pump and it is a bit slow in the volume for me.If I lift the bucket and curl the bucket at the same time I will lose lift and the loader arms will drop.Higher rpms will not take this away completely. I think I should see what the pump is turning to see if I could use a bigger pulley on the pump. I have ordered a tool to measure rpm and will have to test the pump rpm`s to see what i`am getting now.I`am use to using the loader now and don`t have a problem with what it will lift.but I think it can be improved to work smother.I find I don`t want full 3600 rpm`s when i`am moving a bucket full of stone for safety sake and want to try and get the pump at 3600 with the Cub engine turning less.Now the pulley on the pump is about the same size as the pto pulley. I have to study this to get the performance I want.

 

[junderwood]

Don,

You don't want to make the pulley so the pump runs faster at slower engine speed. Your pump is turning 3600rpm at WOT on the engine if the pullies are the same size. Simple math there. You will burn your pump up when the engine is run at WOT if the pump has already reached 3600 rpm at lower engine speeds. Most of the small gear pumps can't turn more than 3600 rpm for a reason. They will turn into a bunch of small pieces. If you don't like the performance you need a higher volume pump. There is nothing to figure out here.

 

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John Underwood
Well I hope you understand me that I don`t used my loader at full wot with a load in the bucket moving around the tractor. So at close to wot I will fill the bucket and the to move across my property I will run a half throttle. with the 129 and a full bucket I got all the power I need to move around with the tractor being to fast and upset.Can you tell me how fast my belt is turning of the pto.I need to find out what the pump is turning when the K is turning 3600. I will know this soon as I have ordered a digital rpm reader and want to see what the pump is turning.I just haven`t got all the bugs out yet lol.

 

[mgonitzke]

Tell us the diameter of the PTO clutch pulley and the diameter of the pulley on the pump and we can figure it out.

 

[kweaver]

Donald - You say that your lift drops if you curl the bucket when you use both valves. That's because your valve doesn't have a <u>load check</u> in it. That prevents a load from dropping when you first crack the valve.
I can't believe you are using a 4-8gpm pump and it's slow. I think Terry Bush used a 4gpm pump on his one arm loader...?

John - With my Vega powered tractor I kept the pump belt tight and like I said , it was about 3:1 over driven. I had that pump belt slipping , squealing <u>lots</u> of times. I ran it for 3 years on a 2 acre garden with a Bush Hog 62" tiller plus out on the road burning rubber and doing wheelies. Needless to say it ran way over 3600 rpm. Never had a problem with it (good thing the by-pass worked). I guess it was made in the middle of the week in the USA !

I don't agree with running one over stated specs but it happens.

I wish there were digital cameras back then. That was something to see !

 

[mwheeland]

Ok, did a little more digging to day, found somethings out. Looked at the FAQ page to day, linked over to charlie's FAQ page. Found under "What implement fit my Cub Cadet". One of the implement is a loader, 350lb lift with 3gpm pump.
Also want to P.F Engineering website. Found that they said that you can use a 2 to 3 gpm@750psi system with 1.5 in. cylinders. It will work good, but if you can us a belt drive pump that they would like to see a 4 to 8 gpm pump. they also say to us a 2 in. cylinder at 1000 psi.

I'm thinking as long as the psi is low. It's ok to have a higher gpm. Just make sure the valves ruturn is working well. If I'm wrong tell me, but gpm is just flow. Psi is the push, so as long as the psi is low. I shouldn't hammer my cylinders. What do you think?
Again thank for the help. Keep it coming. Don't know if I will get back to the computer before saturday night. Got to get the cub ready for this weekend. Going to my first plow day. hope to have a lot of fun. Need to fix my plow, the adjuster broke. Might also trade for a different plow. We will see what happens.
Thanks Matt

 

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KENtuckyKEN (Kweaver)

Please tell me more about the loader check valaves, Where are they and what do I need to do to get this issue solved.I thought that at 1/2 t I should be able to lift the loader and curl the bucket and be slower doing both , but the drop is what I want to fix. I hate running these K wot. Thanks Don

 

[kweaver]

Donald - They are built into the loader valves. Some have them some don't. I seen them years ago in the description of the valves that I was looking at in a Northern Hydraulics catalog ... back around 1987. I'll look over their web site and see if I can spy them ...

 

[kweaver]

Was this FAST enough ?

 

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KENtuckyKEN
This is what I got for controlls. I have float and power beyond port. Is there an adjustment that I have to make?

 

[kweaver]

Donald - Did you read my 2 post under your pics ?
That was the only spool they have listed with load checks. I know their catalog has more in it but my copy is in the house ... and I'm not !

 

[mwheeland]

Hay guy. I have not had time to work on my loader but I have had time to think about thing that I would like to do to the tractor to inprove the tractor for the loader. I got thinking about adding some inches to the center of the tractor. Right around the area of the foot rest. The reason for this is this.
- Have turning brakes that I want to add
- Add room to get on and off when the loader and cab is in the way.
- Push the hood forwards so that it will clear the cab when you open the hood.
- Add room for the hydro stuff. Power steering, extra cylinder and valve for the 3 point
I was thinking about making it as long as a SGT. I think they are a little longer. What do you think about the idea of all of this? I have a 1710 frame that I can use for adding the inches. For the most part I think it will just take time.