782D hydro pump paint color

[OBH]

Making progress on my 782D project and am curious about some component paint colors. Does anyone know what color to paint the Hydro pump? Looks to me like it was industrial grey? The rear housing was without a doubt black.

 

[kharvey]

As far as I know they were never painted from the factory.

 

[jharder]

i never painted the aluminum part. always taped it off after cleaning it up good and painted the cast parts. figured it may help it run cooler. just my thought

 

[lpalma]

Looks like it was painted grey, as other said do not paint the cooling fins...

 

[OBH]

i never painted the aluminum part. always taped it off after cleaning it up good and painted the cast parts. figured it may help it run cooler. just my thought

I was thinking about going this route. I did see traces of grey paint on the aluminum part which had me thinking they were originally done this way. Hard to tell if it’s been repainted over the years.

 

[mgonitzke]

Front housing is some shade of gray. I would not paint the aluminum housing for better heat transfer.

 

[jdrong]

Whenever someone brings up the subject of painting the finned pump, there's always someone who says it shouldn't be painted because it reduces the ability to cool. Many years ago, I painted my 123. I painted everything with Dupont Imron including the pump. So as anyone can imagine, with the recommended primer, sealer, and a few coats of Imron, there was a fairly heavy layer of paint on everything. When I took the 123 apart to paint it the plastic cooling fan on the driveshaft was again missing blades so I decided it was doing little or nothing to cool so I didn't replace it for a third time. After that I used my 123 for landscaping with the blade (more than once). I worked it hard enough for the muffler to get red hot again more than once. To my knowledge the painted pump with no fan worked just fine. I used that 123 for many years after that with no pump issues and it was still working as it should when I sold it. It's going to be hard to convince me that painting the pump will make much difference if any. I am curious where this seemingly to me, "old wives" tail comes from.

 

[1811Cub]

The adage "your results may vary" applies here.

Wisdom says that paint tends to insulate or keep in heat, so the majority of the units were/are unpainted, and are to be kept as clean as possible to aid in heat transfer.

 

[mgonitzke]

Whenever someone brings up the subject of painting the finned pump, there's always someone who says it shouldn't be painted because it reduces the ability to cool. Many years ago, I painted my 123. I painted everything with Dupont Imron including the pump. So as anyone can imagine, with the recommended primer, sealer, and a few coats of Imron, there was a fairly heavy layer of paint on everything. When I took the 123 apart to paint it the plastic cooling fan on the driveshaft was again missing blades so I decided it was doing little or nothing to cool so I didn't replace it for a third time. After that I used my 123 for landscaping with the blade (more than once). I worked it hard enough for the muffler to get red hot again more than once. To my knowledge the painted pump with no fan worked just fine. I used that 123 for many years after that with no pump issues and it was still working as it should when I sold it. It's going to be hard to convince me that painting the pump will make much difference if any. I am curious where this seemingly to me, "old wives" tail comes from.

Not an "old wive's tale". It's physics. Your anecdote did not involve measuring the temperature of the fluid with or without the fan and painted vs. unpainted fins. Will it function? Yes. However, the fluid will not perform as well and it will degrade faster if operated at too high of a temperature. Will you notice a difference? Maybe or maybe not, but that doesn't mean there is not a difference. The maximum intermittent oil temperature is 220°F, and the upper end of the normal operating range is 180°F. The higher HP tractors are likely working pretty close to the upper end of the operating temp range being worked hard on a hot day. Do you think the factory went to the trouble of adding the hydro fan and not painting the fins for no reason at all?

One of these days I'm going to collect some data with regard to the effectiveness of the fan and some real-world operating temperatures...

 

[Doug Rusk]

The factory isn't going to paint anything they don't have to. It's a cost savings thing for one. Also aluminum doesn't rust so..... And I agree paint can restrict cooling. If I were to paint it I would use some type of engine paint as it's designed to not restrict cooling as much. If the hydro oil was changed religiously and at any sign of break down ( smell or color change) there may be no damage to the hydro or might take a lot longer to have a bad effect. It would be interesting to see some real world temp readings of painted vs non painted.

 

[Doug Rusk]

Also I think I would prefer to have a fan. It's there for a reason. I understand the frustration of having missing blades for a 3rd or 4th time. Wondering if there was an out of balance or vibration issue.....

 

[Ken farmer52]

Will a clear coat paint insulate heat like regular paint?

 

[mgwin]

I would say the governing factor would be the thickness of the insulating properties, not the color.

 

[mgwin]

Matt,
Want to get some good test results? Bring your painted and unpainted pumps on down to NC during the month of July. I would bet you could get the pumps hot enough to burn the paint clean off! Especially the ones that have no fans on them!

Seriously though, as you stated, the painted pumps would definitely run hotter. Just not sure if it would cause any damage. Sure wouldn't help things though. I agree with you on it degrading the oil/fluid somewhat also.

My opinion: Show tractor = paint it or not! Working tractor = don't paint it! (a little overspray is ok though )

 

[mgonitzke]

100°F Kansas summer will do it too!

 

[jdrong]

Also I think I would prefer to have a fan. It's there for a reason. I understand the frustration of having missing blades for a 3rd or 4th time. Wondering if there was an out of balance or vibration issue.....

I do have a vague recollection of replacing a bent driveshaft on that Cub, so you probably have a good point about the fan. As far as painting the pump and having a fan, I would guess there's a lot more to consider as far as heat is concerned. As was pointed out, more horsepower creates more heat. I had 12 and 14 hp single cylinder IH built CC in mind when I posted. Later twins obviously have more hp and I think different pumps, and soon after were no longer built by IH. As more and more hydraulically operated attachments were added to the line up and I'm taking a guess here that the newer MTD installed pumps were not as good as the old IH installed pumps were, then heat became more of a concern. Also, the old 123 that I mentioned in my first post, (as many of you already know) didn't even have hydraulic lift for any of the attachments.

 

[mgonitzke]

The later Cubs had essentially the same 15U hydro unit through the end of the "Cyclops" series in 1997. The 1641, 1440, and I think a couple others I can't recall at the moment used an inferior Hydro-Gear hydrostatic unit, but all the others continued to use the same Sundstrand 15U hydro unit.

 

[jdrong]

The later Cubs had essentially the same 15U hydro unit through the end of the "Cyclops" series in 1997. The 1641, 1440, and I think a couple others I can't recall at the moment used an inferior Hydro-Gear hydrostatic unit, but all the others continued to use the same Sundstrand 15U hydro unit.

My former brother in-laws family owned an IH dealership and he became the local expert on repairing and rebuilding CCs. He once told me that the only pump he ever had to replace was when someone had towed their CC down the road behind a truck. I have no idea how far or fast because this was decades ago, and I don't remember all the details. I can only guess that as old as the IH CC's are getting there may be more and more pump problems due to wear and especially, poor maintenance. Old fluid with dirt and condensation and pumps coated with a thick layer of greasy dirt would likely be the main culprits with or without a fan or paint. I have always changed fluid and filter at reasonable intervals, kept the leaks to a minimum, and made sure the pump and the area around it was clear and clean. With all that being said and living in central Minnesota, overheating a pump becomes less likely than southern states. We do get our 100+ degree days but, I probably will not be forced into overheating the pump on one of those days. So, I believe there is a lot more to consider with the discussion of fans and paint on a pump. I can't even begin to imagine any situation where a pump got hot enough to burn the paint (as previously mentioned) that would seem to certainly involve excessive abuse or a fire.

 

[1811Cub]

You will damage the pump if you move the incapacitated tractor faster than a walking speed and more than a few feet.

 

[digger]

You will damage the pump if you move the incapacitated tractor faster than a walking speed and more than a few feet.

Someone should have told me that before I got pulled with a 4 wheeler at plowday about a mile at 35+ MPH. LOL
BTW, the tractor is still running today after almost 20 years.