1977 International Cub Cadet

[jerry.a.johnson]

So this weekend my cousin gave me a ICC complete with front plow and rear cultivator. He said the tractor was running when he parked it about 1.5 years ago but the battery was not charging. So I'm thinking a new generator?

Anyway I can find the serial number on the tractor (2050670U603701) and the engine (8037019). The engine serial number is on the left side at the back, just above the frame.
Another tag under the SN says Kohler but the rest is obscured by the frame. Based on info I found in this forum (based on the engine number) I think the date of manufacture must hae been around 1977.

My questions are; 1. Is there a way to figure out which particular engine I have based on the above? I can't find a model number anywhere on the engine, and is it obscured by the frame? 2. The tractor is a model 1650. Were different engines placed in this model number at the time? 3. Any tips as I begin refurbishing the old girl? Definitely will be stripping it down a ways. Just not sure how far I will go. Is there a good source of the original paint colors?

Thanks for any help and tips you can give me. This looks like a fun project if I can find some parts.

Jerry

 

[mfrade]

A 1650 should be a Kohler K341 16 hp.
If you've been searching this site, Have you found the FAQ's and the Manual Pages?

 

[mgwin]

Jerry,
Welcome to the forum!

I second what Mike says.
You are new here, and are just learning about cub cadets and this site. You should find all you need to know and more, just by looking at the FAQ's and Manuals.

 

[kmcconaughey]

Jerry, WELCOME!

You'll for sure want to check the engine mounts. This series of Cub Cadet has an ISO mounted engine with rubber bushings that can wear out and cause all sorts of issues. Check the CubFAQ as Mike mentioned above. The entry on the ISO mounts is CubFAQ entry #23.

 

[jerry.a.johnson]

Thanks! I did some research this afternoon and realized the engine had to be the K341. Also found the manuals. Thanks for the comments and suggestions. I am new to the ICC. Always wanted one because they are built like tanks compared to the riding mowers I typically fix up and use. Loved the ease of getting the mowing deck out.

My plan right now is to tear down and pull the head to check what I can see regarding the cylinder, rings and valves. Also the rubber mounts. Then go from there. From what I've read the 341 was a good successful engine and I've found parts and rebuild kits.

Also from what I've read the engine used a flywheel stator. Will keep you posted. Thanks again.

 

[wh cc guy]

Welcome Jerry. Glad to have you with us.

 

[RAllison]

Welcome Jerry!

 

[asmith]

Welcome Jerry, You have found the Best Cub Cadet site on the internet. Ask away and you will get answers.

 

[jerry.a.johnson]

Thanks for all the welcomes! I got the old girl tore down yesterday and am ready to pull the engine but I have a quick question. The shop manual says to lift the front of the tractor. I'm assuming that's to access the engine mount bolts directly above the front axle. Are there separate bolts to remove the engine from the frame or is it anchored with the engine iso-mount bolts? In other words, can I remove the engine leaving the iso-cradle on the frame or do I remove the bolts that hold the rubber mounts and the engine comes free?

Thanks for the suggestion to check the Faq page and number #23. Plan on making that modification to the engine iso-cradle. The upper rubber on the mounts looks to be in fairly good shape but difficult to tell on the lower rubber. Planning on replacing those regardless when I tweak the cradle.

I've been doing a lot of reading on this site and there is a ton of information here. Thanks for maintaining such an awesome database and friendly group!

 

[dschwandt]

I have found it is easier to remove then engine and leave the cradle in place.
If you do the cradle mod or if it has been done you will see what I mean as it is a PITA to reinstall once the cradle mod has been done.

Raise the front of the machine and place support under the frame so the axle pivots easily. Works well to place your jack stands under the front foot rest brackets as this leaves plenty of free space under the front of the unit.

The 2 bolts in question are above the axle as mentioned and best accessed with an offset box end wrench and loosened enough that you can get your fingers on them. You have to be a bit of a finger contortionist to do so!

I would suggest the cradle mod brace, if not already installed, be done at this time as well as complete inspection of the ISO mount system and drivetrain components.

All couplers should be should be nice and snug on their shafts, the cooling fan should be intact and rag joints should not be tattered rags!
You only want to do this once so do it right and it will serve you well for years to come.
Good Luck

 

[dfrisk]

JERRY - Welcome to the BEST Cub Cadet site there is. On your two frt engine mount bolts, a GEAR WRENCH brand ratching combination box & open end wrench is THE ULTIMATE tool for those two bolts, 3/8" NC, should be 9/16" hex. Don't get the ones with the flexing box end, just adds complexity.

I have Gear Wrenches in SAE, Millimeter, large MM, and SAE Shorty versions. I very seldom get into my wrench drawer anymore in my top chest.

Years ago My Buddy here, Wyatt Compton and I both built Killer Kohler K-321's because K-341's were selling at CRAZY high prices to garden tractor pullers. I'll warn you, OEM Kohler parts are crazy expensive, but there are reasonably priced alternative parts. I used a lot of STENS parts in a K-241 I rebuilt about 10 years ago.

 

[dschwandt]

I agree

You will still probably need the offset box end to first loosen the bolts far enough so they drop below the cradle to get the gear wrench on the heads.
That is if you opt to to leave the cradle in the frame.

Removing the unit with the cradle intact is a whole another chore requiring a lot of jacking around, twisting, tilting and turning to clear everything that is in the way.

Your unit will probably have an aluminum pan as well. Be aware these are prone to stripped threads and worn mounting bosses if not properly torqued.

Quietline ISO Mounts | IH Cub Cadet Forum

 

[jerry.a.johnson]

Wow! Thank you for all the advice. You guys are awesome. I was a little worried about tackling this project but not anymore with all the help available on this forum. I'm not sure I will be able to dig into it before next weekend but now I know what I need and what to do.

I found a 1976 1650 that a guy started a restore on and quit. Comes with some extras including a nice short block as the original engine broke the connecting rod. I just have to figure out how to get it as it's 9 hours away. Would be a nice source of extra parts.

I think I will begin a thread on the restoration project side of this forum for this project.

Thanks again and I will keep you posted on the other thread. And by the way...speaking of tools...I maintain a website dedicated to the history of a little tool company, now defunct, that my great-great uncle began with a friend in the Portland, Oregon area. Both were Swedish immigrants. If interested you can find the website at pnctools.com. My favorite part is the old tool catalogs I have available for download. Some cool specialty tools listed there! I just wish we could get them still at those prices!

 

[dschwandt]

Sounds good!
If you are going that deep, just drop the front axle completely as you will want to check the condition of the pivot pin and bushings and put a "squeeze" on the "C" channel to tighten it up and get rid of any fore & aft side to side play so it wont look like some drunk mowed your lawn!!

 

[Robert Shingle]

Welcome Jerry, tractor looks to be in very good condition. Hope you have the sheet metal panels missing in the picture. Good one to refurbish. Enjoy

 

[jerry.a.johnson]

Robert: Cousin says he has all the panels in his shop just needs to dig them out. The tractor is in very good condition with a nearly new seat. Worth the effort to refurbish.

dschwandt: Will follow your advice and drop the front axle and look it over. I think I will sling the front end from a beam in the shop and get it up where I can get under it easily.

Thanks dfrisk for the very specific advice on the wrench. I have some ratcheting combo wrenches I think will work but should no more tomorrow when I can get under it.

I mentioned the tool history website I developed and maintain for P & C tools (pnctools.com). I do it just for the love of old tools (no advertising, etc...simple and clean). I still use a lot of the old P & C tools for mechanic work. I have some of their early ratcheting box wrenches I will use on this project. I know some of you old gear heads will enjoy this pic so I'm going to throw it in here. A pic from my website of the early demonstration and product delivery truck of P & C tools...A 1929 Fargo Clipper!

 

[jerry.a.johnson]

And sorry...just realized I should make something very clear. I just like old tools. P & C Tools hasn't existed for years. Even though I get periodic questions from people on the website if P & C warranties their tools, cuz it finally broke after 50 years! So I'm not promoting them. My website makes no revenue at all...so I'm not promoting that either. Don't care if I have 10 visitors or 1,000. So when I talk about the tools or website...it's just because I like old tools and old American made machinery!

 

[Ken Black]

welcome to the forum... i have to say this tho... your in trouble.. if your married or GF.. be aware of the money to fix your cub.... you will have to split it for her pocketbooks and shoes hahhahaha .... tho remind her it keeps you out of her hair hahahhaha ..
also depending on your setup. keep eye on FB or CL for sheds lol as you buy more Cubbies. you will need the space lol ...
yes these decks are a bit easier to get off. tho i must say.. i wish they did drive overs. i grew up on a old 50s gravely com430.. it was drive over deck was sweet... even at 8 years old i could off and on the deck in secs.. yes secs. 2 pins and drive off ..

 

[Greg Riutzel]

Welcome Jerry! I'm an old tool guy myself so any tidbits you can toss us is extra interesting. Nice looking tractor as is. The best I can say is make it a working tractor. Get all the basics 1st as in tune, tire, lube and drive. Any short comings, worn parts, etc. will quickly come to the surface as you use it as designed. Once the reliability settles in, then the detailing and Q-tipping will follow.