1872 Refurbish/Command Swap

[mgonitzke]

I figure I'll put this all in once place, as it might be 6 months or more before I get this thing moving under its own power. I got this 1872 cheap, but only a fair price considering its condition.

The good:

-Sheetmetal is mostly quite nice. Just a tiny dent in the fender pan and another in the hood. Paint might even be nice enough under all the greasy dirt. We shall see.
-60" Haban just needs paint, belts, and bearings. I have always been curious to try one out, but I'm not sure I can keep it, as there are several areas in my yard it will not fit.
-It's a Super!

The bad:
-Mechanically in terrible shape. LH steering knuckle is welded to the spindle (found one on ePay, on its way to me now), Engine was described to be tired, is low on oil, and has some scary cobbles on it. Hydro pump is trashed; input shaft has radial play. Steering box is leaking like a sieve. All 4 tires are pretty weathered.

I am going to power wash it Wednesday when it is warmer, and then try to get the steering wheel off. Then, I'll disassemble the steering column and hope that all the shrapnel that was the input shaft bearings in the hydro unit did not destroy the steering sector, PS cylinder, lift cylinder, control valve, etc.

Extent of tonight's destruction:

The end goal is a mechanically sound machine that I can use daily. About a year ago I picked up a 2185 and parted it out. The engine is going in here. There are a few mods that will be necessary so it runs cool. The newer V-twins are a bit of a different animal than the KT and Magnum twins in that regard.

 

[mpatterson]

First off, nice find Matt! Glad to see you’re still messing with Cubs!
Dumb question time since I too just snagged a 1872 this fall to put on snow removal. I do like the power steering. I’m wondering for this system, is it fed from the transmission or is it a closed system for the fluid? The tractor I bought had an stupid amount of oil plastered all over the engine, inside panels, front axle, steering column and frame back through to hydro. Not sure if PO blew an oil line or just thought it needed to be oil sprayed with used oil ?
Had to replace the fuel pump, cleaned carb, replaced the spark plugs, wire ends, two oil lines to auxiliary oil filter - the fabric jacket was breaking apart and seeping a little oil - unless it was from PO oiling episode? Topped up rear end and changed engine oil. Need to fix some of the engine shielding too.
Sounds like you have a big list of things to do to your tractor Matt - look forward to reading the play by play!

 

[mpatterson]

Forgot to ask you - the aluminum rear end in these - the bolts that hold it the the frame, are they known to break off? I have two of the four missing and I’m thinking they are snapped off? I can’t get new bolts to thread into holes. I’m thinking of putting in the rear and out of my 782 parts tractor??? Good idea to have that style instead of aluminum rear?

 

[klindstedt]

Mike - I don't know about the 1872, but my 1811 with the aluminum rear end had lost 2 bolts and had three broken off. Definitely have to keep an eye on those bolts to make sure they are snug and not missing or broken. Managed to get all the broken ones out, but had to drill and tap to a larger size for one of the missing ones because the hole was 'wallered' out.

 

[mpatterson]

Sounds like a big PIA Kevin!? Was hoping a swap out with 782 rear would be a good quick fix and last a long time?

 

[mgonitzke]

Mike-

This one had oil in all of the same places. I'm 99% sure most of it is due to a leaking top seal on the steering unit. The steering is tied into the tractor hydraulics; fluid from the charge pump is first routed through the steering, then through a power beyond port to go to the valve body for the lift and front outlets.

I will post some more info on the steering column rebuild when I get to it. There is a rebuild kit (~$100) and a spring kit (~$20) and I'm still waiting for the spring kit to show up. I think it was backordered. That steering unit is a bit complicated. The OEM rebuild instructions are far better than those in the CC manual.

The 782 and all other non-super tractors have a different reduction ratio in the rearend, so you could bolt the 782 rearend in, but you'll have less torque at the rear wheels and higher speed. Loose/missing bolts in that area are a common problem; I solved this on my other 1872 by replacing the rearend with a cast iron one from an older tractor with the guts from the aluminum rear because the mounting ears were actually broken off of the front case.

This 1872 has all of the mounting bolts and interfaces intact and undamaged, so I bought the SGT axle reinforcement kit from Xtreme Motorworks (sponsor here) which would prevent any future issues. If I were you, I would put that on and just use the existing rearend, as long as the bolts through the frame into the axle tubes are not the ones that are broken off.

I forgot to post an update before Christmas; I have the axle reinforcement kit painted, and the tractor washed. I found a serviceable LH steering knuckle and spindle, and brought some parts back from home to start using to fix it up, including a donor hydro unit. I also found a great deal on some new rear tires.

 

[sblunier]

Matt,

Top seal in PS unit does NOT require a full tear down, just the removal of the top section and replacement of the quad ring. You have to modify the tear down procedures a bit, but it isn't bad if you think through it....AND, you DON'T want to be inside that PS unit if you don't have to be. I have some pics somewhere of the one I did....

 

[mgonitzke]

Internet died in middle of post...*sigh*

 

[mgonitzke]

Slight progress. Hytran purchased for this, 782, and loader tractor if it ever makes it down here. Got some new rear tires from Surplus Center as well since the original rear tires are really, really weathered and full of plugs, and one doesn't hold air.

It is supposed to be very warm this weekend, so I'm hoping to get the engine out, front axle apart far enough to measure all of the bushings and rod ends to match them up with replacements, pull the steering column, and maybe split the tractor and drain the rearend in preparation for fixing the hydro unit and installing the brace kit.


Steve-

I would like to tear it down a bit further since I want to make sure the disintegrated bearings from the hydro unit didn't trash the steering. I plan on leaving the rotor alone.

 

[mpatterson]

Matt,
Two of the bolts of the four through the frame into that axle housing are the ones that are broke off. Don’t think it would be a good idea to be in there drilling the bolts and trying to get the two broke off out with it being an aluminum rear end right!? So can I transfer the guts out of aluminum rear to the IH cast rear from a 782? Will everything line up and fit as it’s supposed to? That way I wouldn’t have to worry about less torque issue - or would it be that much of a difference to worry about? Just bolt the cast one on and run it set up like the 782 would be? Biggest job for this tractor would be running 450 blower with the Sims cab on it - so don’t know that torque would become an issue?
What is everyone else doing to fix rear ends other than what Matt already suggested with the kit from Xtreme?

 

[mgonitzke]

If I were you I would try to remove the remains of the broken off bolts. If you can remove both axle tubes and there is part of the bolt sticking through the center case, it shouldn't be too hard to remove them. Otherwise, drill and helicoil. That will be a LOT less work than putting all the guts into an iron rearend. The parts will fit, but you will have to re-shim the pinion and carrier and possibly play some games with shims in other areas, too. There are some slight differences but not serious. If I were to do it that way again, I'd keep the CI rear Pinion shaft, move the ring gear to the aluminum rear's carrier, and put the driven reduction gear from the 1872 into the 782 rear. I had to put everything from the aluminum rear into the CI case on my other one because the ring gear in the CI rear was cracked and I couldn't use it. If I hadn't said it before...this is quite a bit of work.

If it were mine, I would not put the 782 rear in there as-is. I think the easiest route will be getting the broken bolts out of your existing housing.

 

[mfrade]

I agree with Matt. Remove the broken bits and replace with new fasteners. Add a drop of thread locker to help keep them secure.

 

[mpatterson]

Matt & Mike - yah, your idea sounds WAY more fun than transferring guts and having to shim it up!
So besides the lock tight on the bolts and the earlier suggestion of brackets from Xtreme- what else should be done? Is there a stupid cork gasket that leaks like the 982 has at the front between the hydro and rear casting that will be troublesome in the future?

How is your project coming Matt? Made much progress? Get any parts orders dropped off at your doorstep lately?

 

[mfrade]

Mike, I wouldn't call it "stupid"..

But I'm sure if you get the unit out and on the floor and see it's leaking, You can order it from CCS and while you're working on the bolts, it'll be in transit and on you're doorstep before you're ready to tackle that end.

 

[mgonitzke]

Mike P.-

Yeah, I'm about due to update this thread here. LOTS of parts have been showing up, to the tune of about $800 so far, and I haven't even been able to start putting it back together very far yet. In no particular order...

New rear tires have been mounted, with tubes. I'll fill with washer fluid when I'm all done with the tractor.

I have cleaned up the front axle, painted the "new" LH spindle, and obtained everything needed to rebuild it except a new pivot bolt. Still kind of a toss-up between modifying a normal 3/4" bolt or buying an aircraft bolt.

Saturday I rebuilt the steering column. Thankfully, the bearing debris from the hydro pump did not wreck the steering column.

I removed the old front tires, which were so bad I could almost see the air in them through the weather checks, cleaned all the rust off the insides (PSA: don't put slime in your tires. Fix the problem. Slime is almost as bad as calcium chloride as far as corrosion), primed, and painted them today. Splurged on V61s.

A blizzard comes over the weekend and it may be too cold to work in the garage for awhile. I need to drain the rearend, split the tractor, and pull the hydro unit so I can extract the output shaft to put in the donor hydro. Once all that is fixed, I can start putting the engine in and thinking about a driveshaft and all the other stuff needed to get the Command installation to work properly.

 

[mgonitzke]

Must have forgot this before. Combined a CC seat pan with a pad from an otherwise identical seat that will not bolt up to a CC. $12 for the seat edging on amazon, and that's about all I have in this seat. Pan would have been scrap if not for finding the pad, and I think my dad bought a few of those seat pads at an auction for $2.50 a few years ago.

 

[mpatterson]

Nice job Matt! You’re making progress now, bet you are liking that! Snow storm? I thought you were living in the sunny south now? You’ll like those front tires, I finally got mine mounted this winter after them sitting on the shelf for almost 2 years in the garage. Very nice in snow and slush

 

[mgonitzke]

Kansas is not "the south" lol...there are still four seasons here, one of them being winter. Current prediction is 2" or less for this weekend, so the 782 may not have to leave the garage.

 

[mpatterson]

Yep, you’d still have four seasons! Sucker! Lol. For some reason I thought you were in Florida now that you’re done school and working the cool jobs!

 

[mpatterson]

Matt, you rebuilt the steering column- did you find that it was noisy at all? I’m finding my tractor is noisy and when you turn the steering wheel it makes different noises. Unless it’s the hydro pump making odd noise when the wheels are turned? Has proper amount of hydro oil in it, everything works properly, just noisy?