1806 diesel

[dstevenson]

Bough an 1806 a few days ago. This is my second cub cadet, first being a 129. Mainly bought this to put my kubota d902 engine in, came with no engine.

I hope that the gear drive is a little simpler to adapt in comparison to the hydro since the engine rotation is backwards in comparison to the Kholer.

I have read that the creeper drive will not last at the 24 hp the diesel puts out. Is that a fact? Being a engineering student I would have to say that the aluminum creeper guts don't look horribly substantial.

Hopefully this is a smooth build...

 

[digger]

The internal parts of the aluminum creeper body are exactly the same as the ones in the iron body style.

 

[nbextermueller]

A diesel is usually mounted "backwards" so the rotation is the correct way.

As for a gear drive being less complicated than a hydro for and engine conversion. It doesn't really make much difference. The engine is going to bolt to a drive shaft either way.

I would say the gear drive is actually harder in your case because you'll have to leave room for the clutch.

And the creepers are not very strong. I see lots of them get destroyed in my pulling club by rookies thinking the extra low gear will do something.

 

[dstevenson]

Okay, they looked similar atleast to me.

Can the creeper handle my 24 hp diesel. I will probably do snow plowing and garden tilling.

 

[nbextermueller]

It will probably hold up fine for tilling. Plowing depends on how much weight you have on and how much traction you do or don't have.

Besides, around here. Plowing isn't done with a creeper. It's done with BRS. (Blunier Ramming Speed). If you stick around for winter, you'll figure out what that is. But using a creeper, you won't get anywhere near BRS.

Just Imagine a big guy in Carharts and near full speed.

 

[dstevenson]

I was thinking to mount the engine the "correct" way. The flywheel of the engine is nearly the width of the rest of the engine and accesories and am thinking of leaving the engine exposed from the sides, never have been a real fan of the side panels.

I also have a VW clutch and flywheel that I am thinking of adapting to the diesel flywheel. This shouldnt be a horribly hard task other than the output shaft will need to be supported by a bearing which will need to be located with a custom bell housing. I have access to a nice machine shop.

I almost just put the diesel in my 129 and mounted the engine to pull power off of the front of the engine instead of the flywheel. But what would I have paid Purdue $80,000 for an engineering degree if I didnt try to make things complicated.



Here is the 1806, bought it off a guy for 35 bucks with a 46 inch deck and mule drive.

I have a box of parts that include the other headlight, grill, and misc bolts.

Here is the Kubota motor, D902, same as what is in the RTV 900. Has around 0 hours on it, I doubt it has ever been started, and the best part is the price. $0.00. Has been sitting in a demo lab for several years so hopefully will not be any issues from sitting forever.

 

[dstevenson]

I have noticed with my 129 that plowing snow is usually done best at higher speeds.

I'm thinking that if I rid of the creeper and sell it to fund more parts I would be happier. Especially with the thought that I could possibly blow the creeper when I load it too hard, which I probably will at some point.

 

[nbextermueller]

If your going to install the engine the "correct" way and it does indeed turn opposite of the direction needed, you may just need to pop open the rear end and flip the differential over to the other side of the pinion. That would make the wheels rotate the right direction.

And just to get under your skin... I've worked with plenty engineers that spend $80K+ (one from Purdue!) on that fancy piece of paper that didn't know **** about working on stuff and had never even lifted a screwdriver. They all worked in "theory". With no practical experience.

But keep us all posted, it looks like a fun project. You've caught my attention.

 

[sblunier]

Nic,

I have always said, "Give me the B/3.0 engineering student with dirt under his finger nails over the A+/4.0 guy any day".......

 

[toconnor]

Dustin, I hope all works out for you on this project but that is going to be very tough to stuff into an 18xx machine. I would say a hydro would be a lot easier because you don't have to fit a clutch in there but I like the idea of a gear drive diesel. I think your going to have an issue with the steering column being in the way. I'll see if I can post some pics up of how close an 882 column is to the front rag joint. What are the dimensions of the D902 as compared to a D600, D640 or D722? Good luck and take lots of pics for us.

 

[dstevenson]

Nic,

I have flipped a few carriers on my Quarter Scale Pulling Tractors, the only worry I have is the ring gear being cut the "wrong" way if it is helical cut. It will still match up perfectly but the pressure angles created by the helical cut gears will actually be reducing the strength of the gear teeth in comparison to straight cut.

I am not worried about this issue thought because I have been a part of maintaining a few legacy tractors at Purdue including this 5 engine 80 hp pulling tractor.

It utilizes a cub cadet rear end without the reduction housing. It also has a helical cut ring gear that is driven backwards in comparison to factory. Has had 80 hp ran though it for approx. 6 years of pulling without any failures.

To catch a little more attention and show off some of my design work capabilities, this is the first tractor that I designed the entire drivetrain for.

I designed and built the entire drivetrain from start to finish. 4x4, full custom t-case, 4 speed tranny, diff lock is just a few of the fun features.

I am a farmer also which is where I get most of my practical experience. I know how most engineers are too Nic, I deal with them every day, and cuss them twice a day. I was lucky to get into Agricultural Engineering where I get a lot more hands on experience in comparison to Mechanical or Chemical. I am an 3.5/A- student with dirt under every nail, even my toes.

So, back to the 1806

Todd, here are the dimensions of the D902, in inches. I dont know the comparision to any of the other models but have read many people direct swapping a D902 into thier Kubota garden tractor with little issue.

I plan on using an electric fan instead of the original kubota fan to reduce the over all length.

If the steering column is an issue, which I did plan on it being an issue, I will convert to power steering. The only thing I havn't sourced is the steering orbital valve. Those puppies are expensive, and seeing that I have $35 in this build so far I could possibly splurge for one but would like to keep a lower budget. The D902 has a hydralic pump factory installed on the motor for the power steering on the RTV. I also have several small hydralic pumps and motors that could power future projects.

I went with trying to find a gear drive cub becasue its different and I lucked into this one on its price. The hydro units are not capable on putting all 24 hp to the ground due to the releif valve settings. That is one thing a degree from the number one fluid power department in the world has gotten me is plenty of hydralic knowledge.

I also have gotten some more parts gathered up, clutch and flywheel out of a I beleive a little VW.

Thinking about machining an adapter to mount the VW flywheel to the Kubota flywheel but that would increase my over all length. Also thought about just building a cub cadet style clutch, with alluminum disks and a heavyer sping. The cub cadet clutch seems like it would work, but I dont know if it would hold the HP. I have friends that pull these cub cadets and some use automotive style clutches and some use cub cadet style clutches. Any opinion on what would work best? I have two complete cub cadet clutches but they have seen better days.

 

[dstevenson]

Oh and yes I know the tires are backwards, better wear on asphalt for parades and also better flotation on sand.

 

[mgonitzke]

The aluminum rearends in the MTD-built cubs like the 1806 have straight-cut gears on the ring and pinion.

I would think you could put 24 hp through a stock-design clutch with a stronger spring and an aluminum disc with a larger area than the OEM fiber disc. I haven't built a clutch in awhile, but if I remember right, the OEM spring is good for about 250 lb/in, and there are springs from the pulling vendors that are over 1000 lb/in. I put an 800 lb/in aftermarket spring (you'll probably see it referred to as a 'red spring' around here) in my 582 with 18 hp engine, and I can lug that down to the point of killing the engine without the clutch slipping.

 

[nbextermueller]

Sweet looking pullers!

The stock cub clutch will easily hold the power with a heavier spring. If you wanted to make it hold for sure, you could make a twin clutch disk clutch. Very easy to do and ALOT less work than fanning that VW stuff in there.

Besides the overall length being an issue with that VW clutch, I'd worry about all the extra weight and balance you'd be adding to the Kubota rotating assmebly.

You can see a quick explanation of the dual disk setup at@
Www.gardentractorpullingtips.com

That way all your 902 needs is a hub adapter to get the1806 driveshaft to bolt up via a rag joint.

 

[dstevenson]

Id have to agree with Nic on the VW clutch, the flywheel weights about 25 lbs which was deffinetly not needed. And the overall size of the clutch is just too big. Though I have not completely thrown the VW out yet, im thinkig modified cub cadet clutch sounds easier.

Started a design on a dual aluminum disk clutch setup, I doubt that I realy need two disks, especially if I use a heavy spring, but its only one more disk and a floating driver. The dual disk should deffinetly take whatever torque I could throw at it and could possibly just use the stock spring, making the clutch a little lighter to push.


Here is what I have so far. Used Creo/Pro Engineer to model, not the greatest at it, but I can get the job done enough for the machine shop.

The red front disk is an adapter that seals up the back of the kubota motor, I have no idea why it needs sealed but it also made for a good plate to sandwhich the pilot bearing in. The blue plate is actually the driver. Quite heavy duty. I have a 1/2 inch peice of plate steel laying around that will probably be used to make that. Im probably going to use some of Brain Miller's ideas on making drive pins. Probably thread the 1/2 inch thick drive plate and if it still looks thin weld some nuts to the drive plate to add additional support.

The presure plates will be reused from some other parts cub cadets I have. I beleive they are the 4.5 inch plates. Will probably need trued up. Sticking with a 5/8 inch drive shaft for simplicity in that then I can reused the pressure plates with no modification.

Floating pressure plate will also be made of the .5 inch steel. Highly excessive in my opinion but its free and an extra quarter inch in length is doubtfull to kill me.

I will probably make my own throwout bearing sleave and use just a standard ball bearing. I do not realy know the internals of a throwout bearing but I feel like the thrust load is the main load it is supposed to handle. A regular ball bearing is made for radial loading, but has a thrust rating. Any opinions? I like having the bearing on a sleave so I can grease between the driveshaft and the thrust bearing to smooth out the clutch action.

I went with a 4 pin design so far, 3/8 inch pins. The driver I doubt will ever warp but I dont know if I would ever shear any pins. Shouldnt have any more than 400 lbs of shear on each pin which by quick rough calculations would be less than 10,000 psi in the pin. From y'alls experience, is 4 pins enough and is the pin even ever the issue.

Several details have to be worked out still, and getting the engine and radiator mocked up will deffinetly help with knowing how much room I have to work with.

 

[dstevenson]

Have gotten a lot done in the past couple weeks. New rear tires, Carlisle 26x12x12 tru powers, realy fill out the fenders nice in my opinion.

Also has some nice stance with the extra width

I got my hydro steering bought and hooked up, should make putting all of these accesories in this little tractor easier.

Had to modify the steering arm up by the front tire and make an entire new braket to attatch the steering cylinder. This wasnt too hard to get done but required a lot of trial and error.

Up front in the engine bay has gotten a lot of make over.

I think it fit pretty well. Opted to angle the radiator to fit my electric fans and possibly another accessory hydro pump up top of the engine. Full custom fab engine mounts were made with small iso rubber to reduce vibration. THis was the hardest part of the build so far becasue it was hard to decide how far up the engine could go and still fit everything with some clearance. I also didnt want all of the weight to be over the front axle reducing my traction on the rear. I did opt for 4 bolt hubs up front. I think I have a new set of Tri Ribs that may go up front once I find a skinny set of 8 inch rims.

Now for the part that many traditionalist are going to start shooting over. Drilled some holes in the fender to mount some fuel tanks that I had laying around. Added some vizors on the front of them for some lights to be added when the time comes. I think they look awsome, I do feel a little bad for dilling the holes in a perfect set of fenders though.

Obviously I will need to get a new seat soon for the one I have is pretty much gone. Im going to use a fuel tank from a parts tractor for a hydro tank most likely. Unless I get super motivated and make one from scratch. Its approx 1 gallon which should be enough for what I will likely be doing with this thing.

 

[jbaker]

now that is cool,,nice work

 

[nbextermueller]

Why didn't you just use the original fuel tank? It looks like you have plenty of room if you moved the shiny aluminum overflow tank. Otherwise diesel Cubs moved the battery under the hood and had a fuel tank under the fenders. Then you would have been able to leave those pristine fenders alone.

But don't worry about the holes those fenders are a dime a dozen.

 

[mhomrighausen]

Maybe it is just me on this..... Those fender fuel tank/light combos. Okay.... when the lights are turned on are your legs going to be in the way of the lights?

 

[fcurrier]

Dustin:

A makeover like you've got going and you're worried about drilling holes in the fenders?

What Nic said about 10cents/12!

What your doing with the fuel tanks/lights is super-innovative. Now that you've thought of it, some (like me) might say "Why didn't I think of that!" I've looked at the <font color="ff0000">Big Tractors </font><font color="000000">with the lights on the fenders and really like the look. Now I have to go look further and see if they have lights in/near the front grille, too.

</font>