1450 hydro line replacement experience

[danswenson]

Hello all,

Over summer of 2021 I experienced a problem with my 1450 where it was heavily leaking hydro fluid when operating. I knew next to nothing about the hydraulics in the tractor, so I started researching and taking things apart. I eventually went so far as splitting the tractor to replace the cork gasket. When I put everything back together I was re-fitting the hydro lines to the pump and one of the lines almost tore in half. I guess it must have been a pin-hole leak in the line the whole time. I have a dual-spool 1450 (apparently fairly rare) which uses a different hydro line configuration than the single-spool models. This made finding replacements online all but impossible.

I was discussing this problem with a handy coworker when he suggested fabricating my own line out of nickel-copper brake line. I'd never done anything like that, so I'm here to tell you it is among the more easy and straightforward processes I've ever learned. Nickel-copper is so malleable you can basically bend it by hand unless you need to make a very tight radius.

As I planned to re-use the original fittings, the biggest problem I had was finding a reasonably-priced 37-degree flaring tool. Since completing the repair, I've been told by reliable sources that a 45-degree tool would have been fine in this application.

This was the location of the tear.

Cheap 37-degree flaring tool. I used 3/8" tubing for this fix.

I made a few test flares to make sure I had the basic idea before trying to actually fabricate a line. I definitely messed up a 4-5 feet of tubing trying to learn how to make bends without kinking the line, but the line is relatively cheap. Here's some of my initial test pieces:

Once I had the shape I needed, I put the fittings on (very important to put on the fittings first before flaring), and flared the ends. I had to do a little bit of bending in place to get everything lined up, but it works and has plenty of clearance to the fan and rag joint. It's definitely not as pretty as the OEM part with tight radiuses, etc., but it got the job done fast and cheap. I replaced the other line the same way a few weeks later just to be safe (don't have pictures of that right now). Here's a pic of the first line installed:

Anyway, that was the project and I wanted to share in case this helps anyone out in the future. Happy for any feedback.

All the best

 

[kphill]

That original line looks like a double flair on the end.. Did you do a double flair on the new one?...

 

[danswenson]

That original line looks like a double flair on the end.. Did you do a double flair on the new one?...

Nope. The way I figure, the malleability of the nickel copper means that the torque I put on that fitting basically molded the flare to whatever it needed to be. I'm actually not sure if the original was a double flare; the old steel was much thicker than than the replacement material. Either way, I haven't had any issues, and no one could accuse me of using it gently since the replacement. I'll certainly report back if one explodes under me.

 

[kphill]

Nope. The way I figure, the malleability of the nickel copper means that the torque I put on that fitting basically molded the flare to whatever it needed to be. I'm actually not sure if the original was a double flare; the old steel was much thicker than than the replacement material. Either way, I haven't had any issues, and no one could accuse me of using it gently since the replacement. I'll certainly report back if one explodes under me.

All hydralic fittings, including brake lines on vehicles get double flaired.. That is why the old one seemed thicker..They do this to keep the high pressure from pushing the line away from the fitting and causing a leak..Harbor freight has a double flairing tool for under 10 bucks so they are not expensive..

 

[jpaulus]

Double flare, single flare, tight bends, or no tight bends......... It freakin works and makes you happy. MY OPINION? GOOD JOB YOUNG MAN !!

 

[kphill]

Double flare, single flare, tight bends, or no tight bends......... It freakin works and makes you happy. MY OPINION? GOOD JOB YOUNG MAN !!

Because people come here to learn how to do it right, not to brag about doing it wrong...

 

[dsarow]

I admire your courage to take on a new technique, chasing supplies,tools and the thought process.You did well,it hopefully gives you a great feeling of accomplishment. I also like that you shared your experience here.Thats what Cub owners do and why we enjoy this forum.Just my .06 cents.

 

[RAllison]

Nope. The way I figure, the malleability of the nickel copper means that the torque I put on that fitting basically molded the flare to whatever it needed to be. I'm actually not sure if the original was a double flare; the old steel was much thicker than than the replacement material. Either way, I haven't had any issues, and no one could accuse me of using it gently since the replacement. I'll certainly report back if one explodes under me.

I'm impressed!(&

 

[jmacdonald]

Thanks kphill I learned something today.

 

[RAllison]

All hydralic fittings, including brake lines on vehicles get double flaired.. That is why the old one seemed thicker..They do this to keep the high pressure from pushing the line away from the fitting and causing a leak..Harbor freight has a double flairing tool for under 10 bucks so they are not expensive..

This is all some interesting stuff! A question that ran thru my mind was...will the copper line take the double flare?

 

[danswenson]

Because people come here to learn how to do it right, not to brag about doing it wrong...

Ok, so I'm open to the possibility that I did it wrong, although I maintain that if it works, I'm happy. Also, I was honestly not trying to brag, just share my experience.

Respectfully, I still think I'm right. We're talking about 37-degree JIC fittings. Some light reading on the history of hydraulic fittings:
https://blog.parker.com/site/usa/en...ial-37-flare-fittings-whats-the-difference-us

https://brennaninc.com/brennan-university-old/fittings-101-jic/

Quote from the Brennan article:

"Flared fittings provide significant design and performance characteristics as compared to pipe fittings and can be used with thin to medium wall tubing. In most hydraulic design applications, pipe fittings have long been replaced with flared fittings, particularly in military and aerospace equipment. In low to medium pressure applications, the most common connection type is a flared fitting. Single flare SAE 37° is the standard in most hydraulic systems. SAE standards for the maximum tube wall thickness must be followed before flaring the tube to match the fitting connection.

JIC fittings can easily be mistaken for SAE 45 degree flare fittings. Some sizes have identical threads and care should be taken to carefully measure any seat angles to differentiate."

My understanding is that it is the SAE 45-degree flare fittings which strictly require a double-flare. Please correct me if I'm still missing something.

 

[RAllison]

Ok, so I'm open to the possibility that I did it wrong, although I maintain that if it works, I'm happy. Also, I was honestly not trying to brag, just share my experience.

Respectfully, I still think I'm right. We're talking about 37-degree JIC fittings. Some light reading on the history of hydraulic fittings:
https://blog.parker.com/site/usa/en...ial-37-flare-fittings-whats-the-difference-us

Fittings 101: JIC – Brennan Industries

Quote from the Brennan article:

"Flared fittings provide significant design and performance characteristics as compared to pipe fittings and can be used with thin to medium wall tubing. In most hydraulic design applications, pipe fittings have long been replaced with flared fittings, particularly in military and aerospace equipment. In low to medium pressure applications, the most common connection type is a flared fitting. Single flare SAE 37° is the standard in most hydraulic systems. SAE standards for the maximum tube wall thickness must be followed before flaring the tube to match the fitting connection.

JIC fittings can easily be mistaken for SAE 45 degree flare fittings. Some sizes have identical threads and care should be taken to carefully measure any seat angles to differentiate."

My understanding is that it is the SAE 45-degree flare fittings which strictly require a double-flare. Please correct me if I'm still missing something.
[/QUOTE

Good info sir!

 

[kphill]

When you take your vehicle to the shop you want it repaired right.. Not re-engineered... There are reasons parts are made like they are and people need to learn that.. Shure you can change it and it may hold up but that only means you are lucky.. I have 3 cubs and every one of them when you buy them you have to go over and remove that stuff.. Like the 1/4 bolts in the driveshaft instead of roll pins to parts welded together instead of fixed right.. This website in my opinion is here to learn how to repair the right way, not screw them up more...

 

[mfrade]

This is all some interesting stuff! A question that ran thru my mind was...will the copper line take the double flare?

Yes, easily.

 

[kphill]

Also you said yourself you learned after you bought the tool that a 45 degree flare will work just as well and they are right.. For those unfamiliar with flairing steel line a double flairing tool rolls the line inward with the die, and then the flairing tool completes it by rolling it the rest of the way creating a double layered end that will take the high pressure of a hydralic system.. At least thats how I learned it..

 

[mfrade]

I'll offer this, an automotive braking system can easily reach over one thousand PSI, the brake lines are steel and the joints all use a double flair, except if your doing a full stainless steel change. Then it's 37 degree single flair with a special "backer and nut" as the tubing is just to hard to roll to create a double flair unless the tube has been annealed. I would agree that if the original tube used a double flair then to me that would've been preferred.. but - it's not my tractor and the golden rule will apply here.. he who spends the gold, makes the rules! This system runs at some 500 to 600 pounds max, so the single flair is probably ok. So if your happy with it, great. Others may offer a differing opinion and that also adds value. Keep smiling it's your tractor.

 

[RAllison]

As far as this discussion,I haven't read 1 post yet that I didn't gain something from...except maybe my own This is good learning!!!

 

[kphill]

I was only adding what the pic showed and the thicker original flair was a double flair.. If he wants to take a chance with doing it the way he did that is up to him..Myself I prefer to put it back to original specs..

 

[mfrade]

I was only adding what the pic showed and the thicker original flair was a double flair.. If he wants to take a chance with doing it the way he did that is up to him..Myself I prefer to put it back to original specs..

And along those thoughts. I would've followed the path of the original line and supported the replacement line to the other original. Swinging out there like it is, it will break right at the nut because of the vibration. It will shake and work harden then snap. If your lucky it may weep and you can catch it before it fails out in the yard / field. And that is based on my experiences. HTH>

 

[Mark Evans]

Hello all,

Over summer of 2021 I experienced a problem with my 1450 where it was heavily leaking hydro fluid when operating. I knew next to nothing about the hydraulics in the tractor, so I started researching and taking things apart. I eventually went so far as splitting the tractor to replace the cork gasket. When I put everything back together I was re-fitting the hydro lines to the pump and one of the lines almost tore in half. I guess it must have been a pin-hole leak in the line the whole time. I have a dual-spool 1450 (apparently fairly rare) which uses a different hydro line configuration than the single-spool models. This made finding replacements online all but impossible.

I was discussing this problem with a handy coworker when he suggested fabricating my own line out of nickel-copper brake line. I'd never done anything like that, so I'm here to tell you it is among the more easy and straightforward processes I've ever learned. Nickel-copper is so malleable you can basically bend it by hand unless you need to make a very tight radius.

As I planned to re-use the original fittings, the biggest problem I had was finding a reasonably-priced 37-degree flaring tool. Since completing the repair, I've been told by reliable sources that a 45-degree tool would have been fine in this application.
View attachment 147525
This was the location of the tear.
View attachment 147526
Cheap 37-degree flaring tool. I used 3/8" tubing for this fix.
View attachment 147527
I made a few test flares to make sure I had the basic idea before trying to actually fabricate a line. I definitely messed up a 4-5 feet of tubing trying to learn how to make bends without kinking the line, but the line is relatively cheap. Here's some of my initial test pieces:
View attachment 147528
Once I had the shape I needed, I put the fittings on (very important to put on the fittings first before flaring), and flared the ends. I had to do a little bit of bending in place to get everything lined up, but it works and has plenty of clearance to the fan and rag joint. It's definitely not as pretty as the OEM part with tight radiuses, etc., but it got the job done fast and cheap. I replaced the other line the same way a few weeks later just to be safe (don't have pictures of that right now). Here's a pic of the first line installed:
View attachment 147529

Anyway, that was the project and I wanted to share in case this helps anyone out in the future. Happy for any feedback.

All the best

Looks just like my IH 782 44” cut mower dual hydraulic and hydro drive !!!!! It’s a 1982 year model !!!!