1450 engine securing/mounting bolts fell out

[jonrick]

I had been trying to track down an issue where my 1450s throttle was slipping when going up hills and issues with the governor surging sometimes. Well, today I discovered the likely culprit. When I went to do an oil change, the act of pulling on the wrench to take the drain plug out shifted the entire engine in the cradle. This also makes sense why I've heard some odd sounds from the drive system. I had assumed they were just loose engine cowls vibrating. I feel like an idiot for not picking up on this earlier and really hope I haven't done any permanent damage. I guess this is why they call it experience.

Upon further investigation I discovered only one bolt that secures the engine to the cradle was left. My questions for you experienced gents are: how many bolts are used to secure the engine itself to the cradle? What size are they supposed to be? And do I need special washers? (I noticed that the one bolt that's left does not snug down when tightened all the way.)

This is the first oil change I've done as the PO had done one right when I bought the tractor.

Thanks!

Quick update: When I ran my finger around the bolt holes, they became covered in anti-seize. I'm guessing the over application of it by someone before me may have allowed the bolts to vibrate loose and fall out.

 

[-CӞ]

PO taking out wrong bolts, looking for oil drain?
glad ya caught it before catastrophe!

 

[glippert]

I had been trying to track down an issue where my 1450s throttle was slipping when going up hills and issues with the governor surging sometimes. Well, today I discovered the likely culprit. When I went to do an oil change, the act of pulling on the wrench to take the drain plug out shifted the entire engine in the cradle. This also makes sense why I've heard some odd sounds from the drive system. I had assumed they were just loose engine cowls vibrating. I feel like an idiot for not picking up on this earlier and really hope I haven't done any permanent damage. I guess this is why they call it experience.

Upon further investigation I discovered only one bolt that secures the engine to the cradle was left. My questions for you experienced gents are: how many bolts are used to secure the engine itself to the cradle? What size are they supposed to be? And do I need special washers? (I noticed that the one bolt that's left does not snug down when tightened all the way.)

This is the first oil change I've done as the PO had done one right when I bought the tractor.

Thanks!

Quick update: When I ran my finger around the bolt holes, they became covered in anti-seize. I'm guessing the over application of it by someone before me may have allowed the bolts to vibrate loose and fall out.

There should be four bolts (3/8-16 x 2-1/4 ? I think). But if you have an aluminum oil pan, I'm guessing the mounting holes are shot. At least mine were, with the mating surfaces (where oil pan meets mounting rails) worn way down (unevenly, up to 1/4"). I replaced it with a used cast iron oil pan (from a wide frame 149 I think). Recommend you take a good look at the mounting holes on the bottom of the oil pan.

 

[mgonitzke]

The 4 bolts attaching the oil pan to the ISO mount rails are 3/8-16 x 1 IIRC. No issue using anti-seize, but they should have a split lock washer and be torqued properly (~33-37 ft-lbs per service manual).

 

[glippert]

The 4 bolts attaching the oil pan to the ISO mount rails are 3/8-16 x 1 IIRC. No issue using anti-seize, but they should have a split lock washer and be torqued properly (~33-37 ft-lbs per service manual).

Oops. I must have been thinking of the iso-mount bolts. Thanks Matt.

 

[jonrick]

The 4 bolts attaching the oil pan to the ISO mount rails are 3/8-16 x 1 IIRC. No issue using anti-seize, but they should have a split lock washer and be torqued properly (~33-37 ft-lbs per service manual).

Thanks for that info! I'll head to the hardware store shortly.

 

[jonrick]

There should be four bolts (3/8-16 x 2-1/4 ? I think). But if you have an aluminum oil pan, I'm guessing the mounting holes are shot. At least mine were, with the mating surfaces (where oil pan meets mounting rails) worn way down (unevenly, up to 1/4"). I replaced it with a used cast iron oil pan (from a wide frame 149 I think). Recommend you take a good look at the mounting holes on the bottom of the oil pan.

I was reading last night about issues with aluminum oil pans. I'm assuming to do the swap I have to pull the engine? Just so I understand the issue correctly, does the point at which the bolt head mates with the pan become "crushed in" or something?

 

[mgonitzke]

I was reading last night about issues with aluminum oil pans. I'm assuming to do the swap I have to pull the engine? Just so I understand the issue correctly, does the point at which the bolt head mates with the pan become "crushed in" or something?

Engine has to be removed. The issue is usually that the threaded holes either strip out, or the bolts are left loose and the mounting bosses on the pan wear down a bunch, or both.

 

[jonrick]

I found one of the missing bolts under the engine. When I compared the old bolts to the new (correct) bolts one was way too long, while the other was too short. Plus no washers for either. Looks like someone might have just used what they had on-hand.

I'm hoping I might be able to get away with not having to replace the pan just yet. I'm at the tail end of my degree and don't have time to pull the engine until after I'm clear of it. Assuming everything snugs down with the new bolts, would you guys reckon I can get away with a few more months of use before pulling the engine?

Also, I'm assuming in order to to install the bolts that go above the front axle I can just jack the tractor up and "swing" the axle to the opposing side to get the clearance?

 

[dschwandt]

Yup, that's what you have to do!
Pull the wheels, makes a bit easier.

 

[dsarow]

Engine has to be removed. The issue is usually that the threaded holes either strip out, or the bolts are left loose and the mounting bosses on the pan wear down a bunch, or both.

Not a bad idea to periodically check bolts on these old girls as vibration does do wonders and when one gets loose,now things happen

 

[dschwandt]

Would be a good time to do the cradle mod and check the ISO mounts as well as the driveshaft couplers front and rear plus the fan

 

[jonrick]

Would be a good time to do the cradle mod and check the ISO mounts as well as the driveshaft couplers front and rear plus the fan

That's what I figured. I'm planning to pull it and go through everything once I've got a little time. I definitely need to service the valve breather as I have a slow oil leak from that area I think.

One interesting thing is that it looks like the iso mounts were done recently. The more I "dig into" this tractor, the more it looks like someone started the process of a resto (at some point). Some things are in great shape while others, like the engine cowls, are all messed up/jerry-rigged.

 

[jonrick]

You gents were on the money (not surprised). Back left threads are stripped! No choice on the engine pull now haha.
Any pointers on where I can get a replacement pan? A quick search comes up with an ebay listing for a flat pan. Mine is not flat, are these interchangeable?

 

[bjames]

Used...

https://cubcadetusedparts.com/product/kh-47-199-09/

New...