I have a 1A tiller on a 782. The bottom gear box pulley has been changed to take the 5/8" belt . Still throws the belt. As I understand it I need a mule drive with parallel pullies not the slightly offset ones for the 44"/50" deck. I have three of these mule drives. Can I modify one for the tiller? Also,can I use JD corn head grease in the tiller gearbox drive?
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Tiller questions.
- Thread starter exSW
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First thing to do would be to check the belt alignment in the mule drive pulleys. Sight down the belt/pulleys and make sure they are running true to the back gearbox pulley. Also check to make sure that the belt is running vertical to the pulleys from the PTO.
They aren't.
mgonitzke
Well-known member
You can modify a 44/50" deck mule drive. Remove the pulleys from the idler arms, then clamp the part of each arm in a vise and use a very large crescent wrench to twist them back straight. This can be done with the mule drive assembled other than the pulleys.
If things don't line up properly, it'll throw the belt or tear it up.
If things don't line up properly, it'll throw the belt or tear it up.
I have a very large crescent wrench. I thought that might be the answer. I'm considering not removing the mule drive. Just torqueing them in place.
Yep, leave everything in place and let'r eat.I have a very large crescent wrench. I thought that might be the answer. I'm considering not removing the mule drive. Just torqueing them in place.
I did that years ago and found the Belt was too long to tighten correctly. Needed to weld extensions on straight adjuster arms to lengthen then enough. About an inch longer? Also Replace the mule drive spring with an adjuster bolt. I believe the gearbox uses IH 251 HEP grease.
mgonitzke
Well-known member
Wouldn't it have been simpler to get a shorter belt? I have found no need to lengthen the pulley arms on my setup on my 782.
I am working on a 149 with a #1 tiller. Have tractor running and fitting the tiller will be next project. The mule drive is bent out of shape like someone used a chain to jerk something around really hard. Tractor has been rolled and bent steering wheel and PTO shifter. Anyway, I got some new idler pulleys for the mule drive but don't have it repaired /straightened yet. What do I need to know about the belt? I had planned to order the correct replacement which I assume is 3/8? Are they prone to jumping off like the mower drive belts when out of adjustment? What is the deal with the 5/8 pulley? Thanks, Tom
OK, many thanks for the info. Tilling is in my future, woo hoo!
rfunk
Well-known member
I've also got a 149, with the 1A tiller (both extensions). The only time I've had trouble with the long belt coming off the pulleys is when I didn't MOW the tall weeds in the (summerfallowing) garden before tilling. The weeds would get sucked into the pulleys by the belt, and "derail" it. Keep the mule drive idler pulleys greased well, they're under quite a bit of load, redirecting the belt. The different mule drive for the tiller doesn't have a spring tensioner for the belt because the long belt needs more tension than the shorter mower belt. (the mower also has much more flywheel effect than the tiller, so it can overcome momentary overloads better; the tiller works more on peak torque).
What condition is your tiller itself in? I really should have posted some on the issues I had rebuilding my chaincase . . . have some pictures on replacing bearings and shafts, sprockets and chain, if anyone is interested. I should really check the archives and see if that's covered, or if I can add clarity to anything already there . . .
My tractor and tiller had been sitting unused for some time. All I know about the tiller at this point is that it turns freely but has some slack in the chain. I have not looked inside to clean or grease it but I will. Right now I am gathering information that may help me do the best job. Thank you very much for responding and I would sure like to see your pictures. I will check the archives here also. Cheers, Tom
rfunk
Well-known member
My tiller, was, unfortunately, locking up due to an overstretched chain and a bearing that fell apart. The tiller shaft itself was wobbling enough to let the chain slack slap around and let the sprocket teeth hit the rollers and lock up. There is no easy way to add grease to the 1 or 1A, so over time, if grease leaks out or dries up, it can get to be an issue. While I had the chain case split, I drilled and threaded a hole for a large bolt near the top of the case. Would have welded a nut on the inside, but didn't have a working welder then . . . adding grease is by using a heavy plastic bag with the corner cut off, similar to a cake decorator's pastry bag. (think freezer ziplock) I like using a grease/heavy gear oil mix, as has been suggested for the tiller gearbox. Have to check my camera for more pictures, the ones on my cell were only for general assembly. 
If you look on the parts diagrams (partstree, etc.), the 2 or 2A also had a chain tensioner - pivots on a bolt, with brass or HMW plastic rubbing surface, tightened by a bolt from the exterior. Kind of thing a handy guy could make for himself, if he's got a 1 or 1A.
If you look on the parts diagrams (partstree, etc.), the 2 or 2A also had a chain tensioner - pivots on a bolt, with brass or HMW plastic rubbing surface, tightened by a bolt from the exterior. Kind of thing a handy guy could make for himself, if he's got a 1 or 1A.
rfunk
Well-known member
Depends where it is seized up. I'm assuming 1, 1A, 2 or 2A, based on 1450 being similar to 149.
Try wiggling the input and output shafts back and forth with the tiller on it's back. You might find one has slight rotation - or neither. If you loosen the sets of three nuts around the ends of each of the three shafts (they go on carriage head bolts inserted from inside; DON'T take the nuts all the way off yet), you might be able to rotate the bearings inside of the mounting flanges. This could help isolate the problem. My experience is that the bottom shaft bearings are the most at risk. Wet mud/weeds left on the tiller after use, water getting into the bearing, and there you are. I had a MAJOR fight to press off the tiller extensions in order to disassemble mine. Heat, hammering, penetrating oil, press, repeated many times over several weeks. Best trick I found was to disassemble anything and everything off of the chaincase that you can, before working on that. Much easier to maneuver the case and tiller shaft as a lighter mass, and blocking it up to hold it steady in the press. Once I got the tiller extensions off, then things were a lot easier, knock the eccentric bearing retainer rings loose, and the press did a not-bad job of breaking the frozen bearings off of the shaft. If the bearings are bad anyways, and the shaft isn't worn where the bearing seals touch, it makes sense to use a die grinder with carbide cutters, or a cutoff wheel to take the bearings off. WORD OF WARNING: if you decide to cut part-way through a bearing and just split it off the rest of the way: put a THICK rag over it before you do. I didn't. I "shot" myself with a tiny steel splinter. Couldn't see the hole in my hand. COULD feel it move around when I moved a magnet over it. Now have only tiny scar in palm, due to very good doctor.
Try wiggling the input and output shafts back and forth with the tiller on it's back. You might find one has slight rotation - or neither. If you loosen the sets of three nuts around the ends of each of the three shafts (they go on carriage head bolts inserted from inside; DON'T take the nuts all the way off yet), you might be able to rotate the bearings inside of the mounting flanges. This could help isolate the problem. My experience is that the bottom shaft bearings are the most at risk. Wet mud/weeds left on the tiller after use, water getting into the bearing, and there you are. I had a MAJOR fight to press off the tiller extensions in order to disassemble mine. Heat, hammering, penetrating oil, press, repeated many times over several weeks. Best trick I found was to disassemble anything and everything off of the chaincase that you can, before working on that. Much easier to maneuver the case and tiller shaft as a lighter mass, and blocking it up to hold it steady in the press. Once I got the tiller extensions off, then things were a lot easier, knock the eccentric bearing retainer rings loose, and the press did a not-bad job of breaking the frozen bearings off of the shaft. If the bearings are bad anyways, and the shaft isn't worn where the bearing seals touch, it makes sense to use a die grinder with carbide cutters, or a cutoff wheel to take the bearings off. WORD OF WARNING: if you decide to cut part-way through a bearing and just split it off the rest of the way: put a THICK rag over it before you do. I didn't. I "shot" myself with a tiny steel splinter. Couldn't see the hole in my hand. COULD feel it move around when I moved a magnet over it. Now have only tiny scar in palm, due to very good doctor.
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