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Powering 3-ph tools off 1-ph power

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dkamp

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Messages
742
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Dave Kamp
I've had a few folks ask me about this subject, so here's a thread devoted to it!

There are a few ways to power 3-phase tools from a common household single-phase supply... some are simpler than others, some are more expensive, some are more versatile. Each has it's downfalls, as well as strenghths.

In each scenario, you'll need to be very aware of the type of electrical load which the machine presents. this includes the voltage required, the max run current, the start current, the amount of time required for the machine to get up to speed, and wether the machine will be starting under load, or unloaded.

The three most common methods of operating 3-phase machines on single-phase power are:

1) AC drive, or 3-phase inverter. These are commercially-available devices manufactured by a wide variety of suppliers. Typically they are designed to accept 3-phase 60hz in, and generate 3-phase variable-frequency out. Most of these devices can do the same off of single-phase input, albeit at about a 33% derate in performance. They also typically do 'soft starting' operations, dynamic braking, overload protection, and other neat functions. Fancy ones are expensive, while inexpensive ones, with less features, etc., are cheaper. I recently had the opportunity to install and test a very compact 4A output AC drive... the KB Electronics KBVF... on a Bridgeport BRJ 1hp mill, and found it to be an excellent device for the application. Cost of the KBVF used was about $225.

2) Another method is to drive the machine's 3-phase motor off of single phase (connect the two 'hot' wires to two of the motor leads) and use motor run capacitors (from each 'hot' lead, to the remaining motor leg) to 'simulate' the presence of a 3rd phase. In this situation, the run capacitors need to be selected to match the motor HP rating, and capacitance on one leg needs to be higher than the other by about a factor of 2. Also, to get the motor to 'start', either a pony motor needs to be connected (to get it spinning), or a rip-cord wrapped around the motor shaft and pulled (Not reccommended by me), or an additional 'start' capacitance can be temporarily placed across the larger RUN capacitor bank (like... about 7x the larger of the RUN cap banks) to kick the motor in the right direction... once the motor is up to speed, the START caps can be removed, and the motor will continue to run. This is referred to as a 'static converter'.

3) The last method, is to make a 'rotary converter'. The rotary converter is essentially a single-phase to 3-phase transformer... it uses a surplus 3-phase electric motor, rigged up with a 'static converter' (described above) to start and run. Once running, the electric motor's A, B, and C phases will provide 3-phase AC out to operate another tool. To clarify how this works, the 3-phase motor is actually used as a rotating transformer... the motor's windings GENERATE the 3'rd phase. The 180-degree single-phase power is fed across two (120 degrees) of the 3-phase 'idler' motor's windings, and the result is a 3rd phase of power out. In a rotary-converter, the converter's idler-motor must be about 25% larger than the load you plan on running.
 
The advantages and disadvantages:
-3phase drive: very flexible, easy to hook up, most are programmable, very compact, and great for providing variable-speed power to a tool. Can be used to power multiple tools, but not advisable to run them simultaniously. Some inverters don't like being switched between machines, either, as they 'learn' the motor's start and run characteristics. Big ones are very expensive, but smaller ones (like the KBVF) are gettin' downright cheap.

-Static phase-converter: Very Inexpensive, provided you can find surplus motor-run capacitors and start-capacitors for your motor. Pretty easy to DIY from your junk-box. Requires technical competence, and a little tweaking. They are commercially available, albeit at a price rapidly approaching a low-cost AC drive like the KBVF.

-Rotary phase converter: Very robust, powerful, and capable of operating multiple machines. Can be made for next-to-nothing, provided you've got a well-stocked junk-box and lots of friends. Can also be purchased commerically, but they're expensive- typically twice the price of a good AC drive. They're also large, cumbersome, and heavy, but they're capable of developing plenty of oomphf to start a heavy load.
 
Here's the slick little inverter:

24102.jpg


http://www.kbelectronics.com/

They've got a web-app to select the appropriate drive product by asking you 6 questions...

Look at product types:
KBVF-24,
KBVF-26D
KBVF-26D W/SIVFR

They've got manuals, descriptions, 'n stuff on their website. Cool stuff, works great, pretty easy on the pocketbook. With these drives, you can run a 230v 3-phase motor off of 120vac single-phase mains!
 
Terry what kind of prices are we looking at to go with a module like that ?
 
Street price (new, but carefully shopped for) is about $200, Ken.

I just visited a guy in Baltimore (Greg Menke) who had the KBVF-24 one on his 1hp Bridgeport BRJ, and it worked slick- there's a potentiometer input so you can dial-up your desired motor speed, and it's silent. It's about 4" square and 3" high... nice unit.
 
I've had this schematic since 12-07-00. This one will stay powered down after a power failure comes back online. He has the first version that powers back up after a power failure ... that could be dangerous to say the least.
24138.gif
 
CRAP! I should'a cut the white off !
Here's a simple set of drawings from 9-01-01 , zipped folder, I scanned with Norton before I compressed it so it should be safe
<center><table border=1><tr><td>
attachment_icon.gif
Phase3
phase~3.zip (41.3 k)</td></tr></table></center>
 
Here's a picture of the KBVF-24's connection diagram I noted below.
24180.jpg


and if you'd like a higher-res view/print:
<center><table border=1><tr><td>
mime_pdf.gif
kbvf connection.pdf
kbvf connection.PDF (41.0 k)</td></tr></table></center>

If anyone's interested in this little inverter, drop me a note, and I'll help set 'ya up with 'em.
 
For anyone that's got a sick curiosity for the way MY high-power rotary converter works... here's a blurry, small picture of the prelim drawing. I'm still working out some control details, but when i've got it done, I'll post it in PDF format for all to scrutinize. BTW- all the 'greeked-out' text in this image is operational details on what each component does, so if 'ya hafta troubleshoot it (or if I have to), it'll be right there.

24221.jpg


Kenny's diagram is pretty slick, using solid-state relays, but they're not stout enough to handle the switching transients of my converter.

Future version of my RPC's controller will likely be all integrated onto one microprocessor board, using 3 large contactors as the only 'big' pieces... it'll essentially be an DIY-RPC 'kit'... you get the board, scrounge a motor of appropriate size for your idler, look up the appropriate capacitor and contactor sizes (from a chart), hook it all up, do some test starts-runs, balance the capacitor banks, put it in a box, and go. Might take a while for me to get that far, but at least you won't need all the stuff I've got in MY box. Reason why I didn't uProcessor it from the git-go- I've got a big pile of surplus contactors and relays here... need 'ta use up some of 'em!
err.gif
 
Whew... well, my rotary converter is now working, and the Bridgeport J-head is operational, too. Needs some cleanin' up, and a shot of lubricant, but flick the switch, and it jumps right up to speed... rotary converter doesn't even notice the BRJ there at all!

Tomorrow: wire up and smoke-test the Monarch 10EE!
(tonight- figure out how the darned thing is wired!!!)
 
Dave don't let the smoke out ! ;)
Has the BP got chrome ways ? If my Grizzly had chrome any where it would have tripled the value
sad.gif

errr I mean it would have value ! Don't drop the Monarch on yer toe when you carry it over to the corner ...
 
Dave, FWIW I just read on another group the 10ee has mercury rectifiers in it. If so, let em warm up properly. Also if it does, would you please let us know what their for???????????????

John
 
Ken- yep- hardened chrome ways... :) I'll be keepin' my body parts out from the danger-gaps. Already lost one toe, don't need to lose more.

John- SOME Monarch 10EEs had mercury-vapor rectifiers. The Monarch EE was first manufactured in 1939, and is STILL manufactured today. Along the way, it has had about six different drive configurations. Mine is a 1942, and uses a Ward-Leonard drive configuration:
A three-phase motor has TWO generators mounted on the same shaft- ONE of the generators provides current to the armature of a 5hp DC motor, another generator provides field current to operate the generator's field. Another DC generator assembly resides at the end of a 1:1 belt drive- this serves as the exciter and control-generator for the motor's shunt and series windings. One of two large wire-wound rheostats control current balance between the field and shunt generators, while the other maintains motor armature generator field current. It's quite a wacky machine, but the Ward-Leonard drive system is awesome... (I used to maintain and troubleshoot 'em in elevator drives). With NO solid or hollow-state parts, you can have completely variable-speed, constant-torque, with total speed stability in a changing load.

Later models of the 10EE had thyratron tube supplies with early equivalent of a variable-voltage DC supply. There were two or three variations, the later put MOST of the control electronics (big tray of tubes, etc) in a removable tray, and is affectionately referred to as WiaD (for "Works in a Drawer", like a similar vintage of television set). A version not long after used similar configuration, but the drive equipment was removable in modules, hence, they're referred to as "Modular". The newest versions have a 10hp AC motor made specifically for use with a Variable Voltage Variable Frequency AC Drive (inverter). One can purchase this as an update kit for Older 10EEs for around $8,000 by contacting Monarch's service department, but the scrutinizers cite the DC-drive machines, especially the Ward-Leonard drive systems, as being smoother- with no AC ripple, the tool leaves a 'cleaner' cut.

But yes, some of the large tubes are now becoming 'unobtanium'. That puts lots of old 10EEs on the 'available' market for rediculously low prices considering what they cost to replace. A 'new' Monarch 10EE is somewhere in the $80,000 range, while an old one can be factory-refurbished (totally) for around $30,000. I'll just clean up mine, get the MG-drive workin' okay, and happily cut metal with only $750.00 invested.
beerchug.gif
 
Thank gawd for TRAICS !

John what he's tryin to say is that he doesn't want to sit it down on his 9 toes because it's loaded !
 
And I realized I didn't answer your question: "What For?"

The Mercury Vapor rectifiers (like C16J, etc) were used to convert incoming AC power to DC. Other tubes were used to 'chop' the DC to control armature, series and shunt fields to provide the same speed/torque balance that the M-G set did with multiple-ganged rheostats and generators.

BTW- fear of the 'unobtainium' tubes has become enough of a warning to send many scurrying away from the 10EE... which is one of the reasons why MY MG-unit was so inexpensive... but the tube-power units aren't hard to fix. The tubes are kinda rare, and pricey when found, but many simply pull the DC drive electronics, and drop in THREE DC drive units (one for the armature, one for each field) and wire them to rheostats. Others drop in whatever big AC motor they can find, and stick in a big VVVF inverter unit. Might not be 300% perfect, but it'll cut better than any imported machine, and bettern' most domestic machines too.

(btw- I called Monarch and ordered a manual for mine- they asked for the serial number, and sent a nice photo-copy of the original, including parts list, lubrication guide, wiring diagram, and ORIGINAL SALE SHEET. Mine was sold to the US Government, and shipped to Ford Motor Company in care of a Post Office Box in Oliver Springs, Tennessee. Figure THAT out!
baldguy.gif

This one cut parts for Cyclotrons at ORNL!
 
Rotary Converter, Bridgeport, and Monarch lathe are all RUNNING and Operational!

Now the FUN starts!!!
buttrock.gif
 
Quit braggin' and show us !
24482.gif


Got my new motor today for the old SB lathe ... turn it to keep out the shavings and the wire won't hook up , it's got the cushion mount frame and it rotates to where the wire hole is inside the frame
err.gif
 
Got this kit in the mail today- it's a KBVF-23D... little brother to the KBVF-24D that I mentioned earlier. The 23D is a 1/2hp drive unit, while the 24 is a 2hp drive unit. The "D" designation indicates that it accepts both 120 and 240v single-phase IN... that means, you can run a 120v line cord to the KBVF-xxD's and get 230v three-phase OUT. Current will be HIGHER than if you ran it on 240v, but the convenience is worth it for 2hp-and-smaller loads.

24487.jpg


The kit includes essentially everything except the line cord, a piece of 4-wire (3 phases and ground) SO cable, and the 3-phase motor... it comes with crimp-on connectors, a potentiometer (for controlling motor-speed!), excellent instructions. Kit includes a plastic adjustment tool to twist the trimpots, and a little decal which identifies the status LED indications. Notice the dinner-fork alongside... these buggers are SMALL!!!

24488.jpg


On one end of the circuit board has a series of trimpots, plus a few jumpers, and three fast-on tab connectors. The three tabs are for the speed-control potentiometer... or, if you have some other device that will be controlling the motor speed, they can be connected there... a 0-5v or 0-12v signal can be used to operate this thing remotely.

24489.jpg


The other end has two tabs for LINE IN (120 or 240v, in this 23D), and three output tabs for your three-phase motor.

24490.jpg


Gonna hook this one up to the 1/2hp M-head on my radial drill!
 

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