I'm back! Loaded with questions. Searching for a little more out of a 129. Not wanting to go to the tractor pulls. Plowing tilling etc. Workhorse improvements. I read on a website about changing some springs on/at some valves. Pretty incomplete info. Nothing about the springs, other than need to be twice the power? Strength? Applied power? Stronger? Not sure the correct terminology for that. Where to buy? Minimal info. So anyone have ideas or proven improvements? Thanks for any and all help is appreciated.
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Ideas on 129 hydro performance
- Thread starter Ron Armbruster
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hydroharry
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- Harry Bursell
Ron - I don't know of any performance improvements you get by "changing springs". You'll have to post some of the info from the website you referenced to give us a better idea of what it may refer to.
I can only think of a couple springs that might be involved in the discussion. If your 129 happens to have a "ported" hydro pump and you're adding the hydraulic lift then you have to change a spring in the pump. The other spring I'm thinking of is on the trunion. It may get replaced when repairing the trunion to stop the tractor from jumping when engaging the hydro to go forward or reversing, and/or to stop the tractor from suddenly speeding/slowing up/down hills.
Otherwise, there is no magic spring to provide performance improvement that I'm aware of.
I can only think of a couple springs that might be involved in the discussion. If your 129 happens to have a "ported" hydro pump and you're adding the hydraulic lift then you have to change a spring in the pump. The other spring I'm thinking of is on the trunion. It may get replaced when repairing the trunion to stop the tractor from jumping when engaging the hydro to go forward or reversing, and/or to stop the tractor from suddenly speeding/slowing up/down hills.
Otherwise, there is no magic spring to provide performance improvement that I'm aware of.
snicklas
Well-known member
I agree with Hydro.... not sure what you are shooting for. All we run are hydro’s in wide frames. They are all 14ho or larger engines, and I have never had an issue with lack of hydro power to move the tractor. You will spin the tires, or maybe even kill the engine (did that once when plowing, snagged a root, with my 1450, my 350lbs in the seat, 110 lbs of weight and at tires, it hooked, came to a dead stop and killed the engine. If you feel you need my hydro power, then there is something wrong with your machine. I run out of traction long before I run out of hydraulic power to turn the wheels......
I am with Harry and Scott on this.
May I ask what is it that you are trying to do that the 129 Hydro is running out of power? My problem is always loss of traction not power of the hydro or even power of the engine. this is the same hydro used in the 149/169 I would think if it were a soft point the 149/169 would have revealed that.
Do you just need a rebuild?
if you are determined to re-engineer the system then over driving the pump and increasing the relief valve pressure are the only external ways I know to change the power/speed of the unit. DONT expect this to last - the pump will most likely cavitate at WOT and destroy itself and increased heat and the increased pressure will cause more internal leakage and accelerate the wear and/or just cause catastrophic failure.
Not taking increased fluid losses or limitations of the internal porting into account, you could potentially increase the displacement of the pump or decrease the displacement of the hydraulic motor. this would require fine machining porting polishing and part swapping with a fair amount of experimentation and mixed results...higher flow and the higher pressure bring with it higher heat - ok for the tractor pull , not ok for working in the yard/field for hours
May I ask what is it that you are trying to do that the 129 Hydro is running out of power? My problem is always loss of traction not power of the hydro or even power of the engine. this is the same hydro used in the 149/169 I would think if it were a soft point the 149/169 would have revealed that.
Do you just need a rebuild?
if you are determined to re-engineer the system then over driving the pump and increasing the relief valve pressure are the only external ways I know to change the power/speed of the unit. DONT expect this to last - the pump will most likely cavitate at WOT and destroy itself and increased heat and the increased pressure will cause more internal leakage and accelerate the wear and/or just cause catastrophic failure.
Not taking increased fluid losses or limitations of the internal porting into account, you could potentially increase the displacement of the pump or decrease the displacement of the hydraulic motor. this would require fine machining porting polishing and part swapping with a fair amount of experimentation and mixed results...higher flow and the higher pressure bring with it higher heat - ok for the tractor pull , not ok for working in the yard/field for hours
Going back to your original post and from yesterday, I believe you're concerned that a hydro won't hold up as well as a gear driven machine and are still uncertain what model you want to get?...(last I saw you wanted a 125 but hadn't heard back from the seller and are now looking at a 129. I haven't seen a post about actually purchasing it yet).
I don't think you have anything to worry about. You're fine with a hydro unit doing everything that a gear drive can do. Yes, in theory and most people believe the gear drive is superior for abusive work but the clutch would be a weak link that keeps it from becoming "indestructible". Just maintain your hydro and it'll be just as good as the gear drive.
I don't think you have anything to worry about. You're fine with a hydro unit doing everything that a gear drive can do. Yes, in theory and most people believe the gear drive is superior for abusive work but the clutch would be a weak link that keeps it from becoming "indestructible". Just maintain your hydro and it'll be just as good as the gear drive.
snicklas
Well-known member
Here is another perspective......
Dad and I, combined, own 11 Cub Cadets, 10 IH Produced, and 1 2020 ZT1-54.... of that count we have 11 Hydros and 0 Gear Drive. We have owned 1 Gear Drive, a 124, and had more issues with the clutch on it than we ever have with a hydro. The only major failure we had was on Dad’s #1 149 that he’s owned for 42 Years, the rag joint let go and banged a couple things up under the tunnel cover. A new rag joint and make sure everything was straight, and it was back in service.
Our choice of tractors is a high horsepower, Wideframe Hydro....we have
3 - 1650’s
2 - 1450’s
2 - 149’s
1 - 129
2 - 782’s
Non of these have ever not done what we have asked them to do... and the #1 149 and my Twin-Stick 1450 work year around.... and move snow and plow gardens...... Many out there like a gear drive... but we really like the hydro drive, hydro lift tractors....
On a side note..... I love the new ZTR..... I know it’s a “New MTD” machine.... but it’s well built and does a great job.... 54” fabbed deck and 24 horse Kohler..... but that is a different discussion......
Dad and I, combined, own 11 Cub Cadets, 10 IH Produced, and 1 2020 ZT1-54.... of that count we have 11 Hydros and 0 Gear Drive. We have owned 1 Gear Drive, a 124, and had more issues with the clutch on it than we ever have with a hydro. The only major failure we had was on Dad’s #1 149 that he’s owned for 42 Years, the rag joint let go and banged a couple things up under the tunnel cover. A new rag joint and make sure everything was straight, and it was back in service.
Our choice of tractors is a high horsepower, Wideframe Hydro....we have
3 - 1650’s
2 - 1450’s
2 - 149’s
1 - 129
2 - 782’s
Non of these have ever not done what we have asked them to do... and the #1 149 and my Twin-Stick 1450 work year around.... and move snow and plow gardens...... Many out there like a gear drive... but we really like the hydro drive, hydro lift tractors....
On a side note..... I love the new ZTR..... I know it’s a “New MTD” machine.... but it’s well built and does a great job.... 54” fabbed deck and 24 horse Kohler..... but that is a different discussion......
hydroharry
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- Harry Bursell
Scott - I don't know if the survey was in the late 70's and done by IH, or early 80's and done by CCC, but the results showed 9 out of 10 people preferred Hydros. You can probably even relate it to current day cars/pickups. Hardly any cars are produced with manual shifts, and I don't think any American manufacturer produces a gear drive pick-up any more.
I like my 100 and grew up using a 102 - both gear driven. Don't get me wrong, I still like a gear drive but I LOVE my hydro 1450. You have infinite speed adjustment for whatever is being done.
For instance, I remember trying to use my 100 for throwing snow last winter and it was NOT fun. Anything short of crisp, powdered snow caused the chute to clog within a few feet. Without a creeper gear, 1st gear was just too fast and I spent more time working the clutch and clearing the chute than I did actually moving snow. It got to the point that I just gave up and used the manual snow removal tool.
Now I'm REALLY looking forward to trying out my "new to me" snow thrower on this 1450...
And Hydro, I 100% agree. Nobody wants to shift gears anymore. And trucks... that gets me. Trucks for the most part should be manuals. Otherwise they're just oversized, jacked up cars IMO.
For instance, I remember trying to use my 100 for throwing snow last winter and it was NOT fun. Anything short of crisp, powdered snow caused the chute to clog within a few feet. Without a creeper gear, 1st gear was just too fast and I spent more time working the clutch and clearing the chute than I did actually moving snow. It got to the point that I just gave up and used the manual snow removal tool.
Now I'm REALLY looking forward to trying out my "new to me" snow thrower on this 1450...
And Hydro, I 100% agree. Nobody wants to shift gears anymore. And trucks... that gets me. Trucks for the most part should be manuals. Otherwise they're just oversized, jacked up cars IMO.
Well I still have yet to purchase my tractor. I think maybe I have been reading too much about something I know so little about. I was reading a tractor pulling website that claims to be Cub Cadet oriented. Some info was very vague,and I was hoping someone here could straighten me out. spndncash, with the info about the pressure springs and the thought of totally destroying it,is what I was thinking but I am no expert on hydraulics. Not sure that my World Class info was correct,because it sounded like BS but I can't throw rocks when I have no idea what I am talking about. Thank you for the input. Thanks to all for the shared knowledge. Yes Harry my 125 deal never went down. 
I need that Kleenex now. I am sizing up a package of three 129s. Time will tell on this deal. So many tears. And for the record I am too poorly educated on the matter of hydro driven tractors,hence the dumb and often random questions. I know so little that every conversation raises more questions. And since I only read what I know............ Blah blah blah. Thanks once again and being tolerant of me.
I need that Kleenex now. I am sizing up a package of three 129s. Time will tell on this deal. So many tears. And for the record I am too poorly educated on the matter of hydro driven tractors,hence the dumb and often random questions. I know so little that every conversation raises more questions. And since I only read what I know............ Blah blah blah. Thanks once again and being tolerant of me.
glippert
Well-known member
"I am too poorly educated on the matter of hydro driven tractors,hence the dumb and often random questions. I know so little that every conversation raises more questions. And since I only read what I know............"
Ron, you certainly found the right forum to get all the correct answers and accurate info you'll ever need. The folks around here have (and share) an unbelievable amount of knowledge (myself not included!). And I agree with the others, you won't have to worry about trying to 'get more' out of a hydro drive - it'll do whatever you ask of it.
Ron, you certainly found the right forum to get all the correct answers and accurate info you'll ever need. The folks around here have (and share) an unbelievable amount of knowledge (myself not included!). And I agree with the others, you won't have to worry about trying to 'get more' out of a hydro drive - it'll do whatever you ask of it.
RON ARMBRUSTER - DO NOT put any faith in anything Brian Miller says on his website!
If your interested in garden tractor pulling look at MIDWEST SUPERCUB's website. read their question/answer forum. Most all pulling tractors regardless of what color they're painted and what brand sheetmetal they wear are CUB CADET gear drives where it counts.
I try to stay away from the gear drive vs hydro debates. I have the #70 Dad traded an Original for in 1965, but it has a 10 hp Kohler in it now. And my #72 I bought in about 1979 or '80 has a 14 hp Kohler in it now. And I have a 982 with 20 hp Onan and all the options, 3 pt hitch, frt remotes, rear pto, and steering brakes, and hydro transmission. For heavy draft jobs, moldboard plowing, grading, etc a gear drive rules, first and reverse, or 2nd and reverse. I was at Plow Day #2 when the ground was packed hard and turning over in huge slabs, I plowed in 1st gear all day. The hydro's plowed faster than me but they had to stop and cool their hydro oil every round. In normal plowing conditions you don't have to stop with a hydro. I never had to stop at all except for gasoline.
Depending on what your going to do with your Cubbie, follow Scott's advice, buy the highest HP hydro you can find and afford. a 14 or 16 hp or higher HP 2-cylinder engine. It really doesn't cost any more to run a 14 or 16 hp engine than it does to run a 10 or 12 hp engine, but the bigger engine lasts much longer.
If your interested in garden tractor pulling look at MIDWEST SUPERCUB's website. read their question/answer forum. Most all pulling tractors regardless of what color they're painted and what brand sheetmetal they wear are CUB CADET gear drives where it counts.
I try to stay away from the gear drive vs hydro debates. I have the #70 Dad traded an Original for in 1965, but it has a 10 hp Kohler in it now. And my #72 I bought in about 1979 or '80 has a 14 hp Kohler in it now. And I have a 982 with 20 hp Onan and all the options, 3 pt hitch, frt remotes, rear pto, and steering brakes, and hydro transmission. For heavy draft jobs, moldboard plowing, grading, etc a gear drive rules, first and reverse, or 2nd and reverse. I was at Plow Day #2 when the ground was packed hard and turning over in huge slabs, I plowed in 1st gear all day. The hydro's plowed faster than me but they had to stop and cool their hydro oil every round. In normal plowing conditions you don't have to stop with a hydro. I never had to stop at all except for gasoline.
Depending on what your going to do with your Cubbie, follow Scott's advice, buy the highest HP hydro you can find and afford. a 14 or 16 hp or higher HP 2-cylinder engine. It really doesn't cost any more to run a 14 or 16 hp engine than it does to run a 10 or 12 hp engine, but the bigger engine lasts much longer.
That first sentence was what I thought. I didn't want to be the one to say it out loud. Didn't want anyone to get butt hurt because I am bad mouthing somebody they are fans of. I stumbled on to his website while trying to find general/basic info. Sounds to me like he/they are stuck on themselves. Some of the info sounds like " No one knows anything about anything but me! " Not sure I would enjoy their company. There's nothing wrong with confidence but,somewhere there is a line that crosses over to conceitment. I really appreciate the feed back.
