Cold Start

[walls00000]

I've been having a tough time starting my 782 on the first start in the winter time. My batery is probably shot ....again. I use my tractor year round, and I replaced the battery about a year ago. The PO put a Huskee 420 cca battery in it which worked great for me for about 4 years. When that went, all I could find are 320 cca batteries, which is the highest cca battery I can find for the size that will fit in my tractor
I use a similar Tractor Supply brand battery in my LTX-1050KW, but I can't seem to get much more than a year out of them. So I put a Die Hard 320 cca in my 782 about a year ago and now that the temperature dropped, it is having trouble cranking my 782 starter.

I've read a bunch of info about winter oil, as I'm a proponent of using straight 30 weight oil (I use Rotella). I had previously switched to 10W30, and after reading more about the latest developments in oil, I decided to give Rotella 15W45 synthetic a try as I hear it can be better for that cold start. Long story short, I still have problems on the cold start. Subsequent starts after the engine has heated up work just fine.

So that brings me to trying other methods. Any thoughts?

 

[mgonitzke]

A magnetic heater on the transaxle will help a lot.

What do you have against using 10W-30 oil like the engine manual states to use in cold weather?

 

[walls00000]

Nothing against 10W30, I heard that someone with the same tractor was using Rotella15W45 synthetic because the tractor used it and his tractor seemed to start easier in the cold with that synthetic blend. I could also try a synthetic 10W30. I just decided to try something someone else had success with. I'm thinking that oil is only part of the issue.

 

[1811Cub]

Honestly, a 320CCA should be more than plenty to get a gas powered garden tractor up and running, as long as the engine is healthy, the starter is up to snuff, strong blue spark, fresh non ethanol winter blend fuel, and your choke adjusted. 10W30 is what Kohler has recommended for sustained operation below 32 degrees Fahrenheit. Straight 30 would be like molasses. The cold transaxle will drag it down a bit, so heating it will make it easier to crank.

 

[walls00000]

I never thought of heating the transaxle. Makes sense though, If I understand correctly, the hydro pump is always engaged and the hitran is also thicker when cold, and that's where the resistance is.

 

[mgonitzke]

Here is the heater I use on my 682 w/ loader that sits in an unheated shed. Below about 40 degrees it is a challenge getting it started, as the loader hydraulics are on full-time as well as the transaxle. I really need to get a second one so it can have one on the loader reservoir and another on the transaxle. I see the price has increased about $20 since I bought mine...

Magnetic Heater

 

[tkhoffman]

What is happening?
Does the engine not crank?
Does the starter kick out too soon?
My 782 hates cold. It always starts but it takes many attempts. I'm talking 10F and below.

 

[jdrong]

I don't know if this is possible to do with a 782 but, my 149 was impossible to start in the cold Minnesota winters. So, I bought a complete clutch set- up from a gear drive and installed that. Now depressing the brake pedal to start also releases the clutch (like a gear drive) so the hydro pump is not being turned over during starting. I have a magnetic electric heater, and I haven't used it since I installed the clutch years ago. If this is possible to do on a 782, I would highly recommend it.

 

[walls00000]

So here's one solution I tried and it seems to be working for the time being. I tried a Noco Boost GB40 jump starter pack. I hadn't seen any videos proving it actually worked for my particular case, so I made one. @tkhoffman This should also show a good description about what I'm facing in terms of cranking/kickout etc.

 

[walls00000]

@jdrong, I never thought of installing a clutch setup on a hydro, and didn't think it would be feasible - what a great idea, especially if you live in the cold! I may not need to go to that length as the above solution might be enough for this Massachusetts resident, but I'm curious what it took to install: engine removal, driveshaft modification, custom parts etc.

 

[mgonitzke]

A clutch would help, but you'll likely find that correct weight oil + tuned up engine + heater for transaxle will be an easier and cheaper solution. An electric fuel pump would help, too...the mechanical ones lose their prime if the tractor sits awhile and then it takes a lot of cranking to get enough fuel back in the carb to start it. Facet 40177 is a good electric pump with the same output as the OEM mechanical pump.

While IH offered a clutch as an option on the earlier hydro tractors, I personally would not want one on my tractor. The transmission input on the hydro unit isn't designed to have an axial load applied to it, and the stock clutch spring (in my experience) is not strong enough for more than about 12-14 hp, so you'd need a stronger spring, which is even worse for the hydro unit.

 

[lpalma]

Plus when you engauge the clutch/brake while plowing snow the hydro lift will no longer work. But on a hydro who needs brakes....

 

[Bret McFarland]

So here's one solution I tried and it seems to be working for the time being. I tried a Noco Boost GB40 jump starter pack. I hadn't seen any videos proving it actually worked for my particular case, so I made one. @tkhoffman This should also show a good description about what I'm facing in terms of cranking/kickout etc.

Good solution handy to have. I would like to get one of these, thanks for the demo.

 

[PACub100]

That booster pack is pretty cool, I might have to check into that to have around the house.
Like others said, thinner oil for the winter and a heater for the transaxle. Heck, could get two and put the second one on the oil pan. Another thing, how's the hydro fluid? I saw a YouTube video on frozen oil in the differential where they had a clear case so you can see it while it operates... Made me cringe.

I also like Matt's suggestion on the fuel pump. I know it took awhile to start my 1450 since it hadn't run since the last time I mowed in October. Makes sense since I use it every weekend in the summer and only a handful of times during the winter months... Might just have to check into that for myself...

 

[jdrong]

@jdrong, I never thought of installing a clutch setup on a hydro, and didn't think it would be feasible - what a great idea, especially if you live in the cold! I may not need to go to that length as the above solution might be enough for this Massachusetts resident, but I'm curious what it took to install: engine removal, driveshaft modification, custom parts etc.

I just replaced the throw out bearing this past week so I have recent experience with removing the clutch. I didn't have to remove the engine or the rear diff. I watched a few You Tube videos, but figured out on my own that removing the fuel tank and clutch arm bracket made it easy to lift the complete clutch and drive shaft out in one piece. There were a number of methods used for r&r the complete clutch and driveshaft. When I first installed the clutch set up, I used all used factory-made parts easily found on Ebay at the time. I did have to modify the clutch arm for length and clearance because it was from a narrow frame Cub Cadet and as you may know the 149 is a wide frame. As far as axial load on the pump, I wasn't concerned (or even thought about that) as the pump stops turning quickly and I believe adding a clutch to a hydrostatic drive for easier starting was an actual Cub Cadet dealer installed option way back when they were new. I can't argue with using a clutch with more than 14 HP as I have no experience with that but stronger clutch springs are easily available. As far as the correct weight oil and tune up, that should be considered mandatory, irregardless of the season. One other thing I don't think has been suggested is that I always use a battery maintainer to keep the battery fully charged especially during cold weather and it does seem to extend the life of the battery. Not having the hydraulic lift work when the brake pedal is depressed has never been an issue for me and at the very most, a very minor inconvenience and mostly unnoticeable for me.

 

[jdrong]

A clutch would help, but you'll likely find that correct weight oil + tuned up engine + heater for transaxle will be an easier and cheaper solution. An electric fuel pump would help, too...the mechanical ones lose their prime if the tractor sits awhile and then it takes a lot of cranking to get enough fuel back in the carb to start it. Facet 40177 is a good electric pump with the same output as the OEM mechanical pump.

While IH offered a clutch as an option on the earlier hydro tractors, I personally would not want one on my tractor. The transmission input on the hydro unit isn't designed to have an axial load applied to it, and the stock clutch spring (in my experience) is not strong enough for more than about 12-14 hp, so you'd need a stronger spring, which is even worse for the hydro unit.

Adding an electric fuel pump seems like a great idea.

 

[mgonitzke]

I also like Matt's suggestion on the fuel pump. I know it took awhile to start my 1450 since it hadn't run since the last time I mowed in October. Makes sense since I use it every weekend in the summer and only a handful of times during the winter months... Might just have to check into that for myself...

1450 is gravity feed...adding a fuel pump only adds complexity and will not aid in starting.

 

[PACub100]

1450 is gravity feed...adding a fuel pump only adds complexity and will not aid in starting.

And that's what I call "checking into it"

 

[Bret McFarland]

1450 is gravity feed...adding a fuel pump only adds complexity and will not aid in starting.

I had a 1450 about 25 years ago, it had a fuel pump. Pretty sure the fuel tank sat lower than the carb.

 

[mgonitzke]

I had a 1450 about 25 years ago, it had a fuel pump. Pretty sure the fuel tank sat lower than the carb.

If your 1450 had a fuel pump, someone added it. The fuel tank is above the carb on those. None of the QL tractors I owned had a fuel pump. Nor do they need it.

An 82 series tractor with a K-series engine in it would need a fuel pump, as the bottom of the fuel tank is below the carb for that combination.