Archive through November 27, 2006

[kide]

Charlie - read the POPSci link off that page.. I don't have any spare Kohler heads, but I'm tempted to try it on an (off topic) Cushman Eagle motor.. It sounds like it might be worth just trying some grooves from the squish area leading towards the piston. Hey - just to keep this post honest,- here's the 129's new home - I actually got it done!(40 x 46, 14 high in the main part, with a loft in the lean-to). I emptied a 16 foot square shed and filled this building

 

[digger]

Kendell,
Great lookin shed, I wish mine was that big!

Maybe we could get Capt. Kirk or Don V. to do some test milling for us.

 

[sblunier]

Craig E.

I have had a carbon core wire on my 100 for 6 years, not a single hard start or mis-fire. I'm not doubting that a copper core wire isn't a good thing, but I will say that there are much worse things than a carbon core plug wire....IMHO.

 

[gtatchell]

That black Kohler looks great Richard. We can get Kohlers here in Oz, but they are rare & expensive. John Deere offer them as an option to B.S.
Just back home from a few days up around South West of Sydney. Picked up a good (my opinion) 11H.P. 20.6 cu.in. All I'm goin to say is that it is RED (!!) & it runs well (& it is going to be a bit of fun fitting it). At least it fitted in the van easy to come home.

 

[rbedell]

Ryan & Craig:

Early this summer, I ran into this Plug Wire situation myself. My 1450 has always been a hard starter. I have taken the plug off, took it to the bench, and ohmed it out with a meter and all "appeared" to be good. Got to looking at this wire real close, and discovered it was carbon core. All the Cub & Kohler material that I researched, indicated a solid metal core wire. Carbon Core Wires have a certain resistance (Ohms) per foot, while solid core wire has ZERO ohms resistance. I replaced the wire on my 1450 with solid core wire, and it made a HUGE difference. It starts in 2 to 3 roll overs now.

IIRC correctly, carbon core wire was designed for the issue of Radio Interferance problems. In addition, system that utilize carbon core plug wire incorporate a higher output voltage capacity that is need to effectively maintain a good spark.
Since I am not interested in Radio Interference and Kohler Coils are not High Capacity output rated, I'll use the solid core plug wire.

 

[rwilke]

Roland B,
I believe you are correct regarding the reasoning for carbon core sparkplug wires; to supress radio interference. And I'm not watching TV when I'm mowing, so no biggie to me. But I do have a question: Does your 1450 have electronic ignition?

If not, is ANYONE ELSE running a solid core wire with an electronic ignition?

Craig E.,
Does your KT17 have electronic ignition?

David Kirk,
What type of sparkplug wire did you install on your Killer Kohler when using the "PointSaver" and 'blue' Bosch ignition coil?

I'm no electrician, which makes me leary as to whether or not a solid core wire would allow enough radio interference to mess with an electronic ignition conversion system.

Myron,
You pointed out that, "...You MUST use a copper wire cored spark plug wire for proper operation of a K series Kohler." I agree that a solid core wire is best for early OEM Kohler ignition system. Do you know if later engines with a stock ELECTRONIC ignition system were still outfitted with solid core wires or not? (Maybe I should be posting these questions in the, "Pulling, Hot Rodding & Performance Enhancement" section ?)

Ryan W

 

[rbedell]

To All:

I just got a hot Email from Myron pointing out an error in my previous post. I referred to the replacement wire as "solid core" when in fact I should have used the description as "Metallic Core".

I was attempting differentiate between metal and carbon core wires and used the wrong terminology.

Metallic core wires can consist of stranded copper or stranded steel wire.

I apologize if this caused any confusion.

Glad Myron is around, and monitoring the boards and catches my boo-boo's.

 

[dfrisk]

ROLLAND - Some of Us are concerned about radio interference with Our Kohlers.... I have a separate resisitor in the wires to the AM/FM/Cass. deck on the 72 and the Accel Super Conductor wires don't make any static. But I remember Dad fought that problem for years on His old gas engine FARMALLS, on AM especially.

KENDELL - Nice Shop! It's just over 2 times larger than Mine which is WAY too small anymore. Do plans call for a lift in the high bay?

 

[rbedell]

Ryan:

I have used the metallic core wire on all my IH built Cubs through the 82 series with no problem.

I have no experience or knowledge beyond that.

 

[rwilke]

Dennis F,

Good point, some folks DO listen to a radio while running their CC and/or the wife, kids or neighbors nearby may not like the static....

If that's the case & you do run a carbon core wire (to suppress radio interference) then a quick 'Resistance Check' of the wire using an ohm meter periodically will determine if any carbon-core breaks have developed within it - which may likely result in poor spark performance being delivered to the plug.

Depending on the amount of tractor operating time, I'd guess that it wouldn't hurt to do a Resistance Check at least once a year. Record the determined ohm value (as Roland B indicated earlier, that value is dependent on wire length) in your record book and watch for any ohm increase in future checks....

Ryan W

 

[rwilke]

Roland B,

You mentioned, "I have used the metallic core wire on all my IH built Cubs through the 82 series".

Were they outfitted with non-electronic, (OEM standard points & coil) ignitions or ?

Ryan W

 

[jegstad]

I'll chip a couple of points in on the carbon wire thing.

1 - The reason for adding resistance originally was to reduce radio interference - in the days when AM was the only game in town.

2 - Resistor plugs with metallic core wires do the same thing as resistor wires and standard plugs.

3 - The US Army was concerned about the affect of using resistor plugs and cold weather starting a long tine ago and commissioned a study to find out. They found that using the right amount actually helped cold weather starts. I do not know of any modern day studies that back this up.

4 - Using resistor plugs and wires together is a bad idea since the total ammount of resistance is double that of what works best.

5 - Resistor wires are subject to early failure in a vibration environment because of the way they are made - powdered carbon in a string matrix. On single cylinder engines use resistor plugs and metallic wires if you want to reduce interfernce or to possibly enhance cold weather starting.

As a side note, vibration is also a killer for soldered connections on your cubs. Use only crimp connections if you want them to last. Just ask NASA why.

 

[glouderback]

This thread on spark plugs & wires has been most informative. I had thought I knew a little about them.
G.L.

 

[bcorn]

I am using Accel Super Stock solid copper core wires on our race car and my old 88 GMC 4X4. Good enough for them good enough and better even I think for my Cubs!

I also like that flash groove on that head. Simple but could be a very good idea! May have to try it. Already got my 10hp shaved.

Oh yes before somebody jumps my tractor will be dual purpose. Work and play.

Pop

 

[dfrisk]

JIM E. - I know the answer to the NASA crimp-on connector question but personally I still solder EVERY electrical connection, then apply heat-shrink tubing. Son worked for the wire harness supplier for CAT in Lafayette, IN for a couple years and the OEM's have special staking machines that You can't duplicate the crimp with a Vice-Grip and I don't redo enough wiring to justify the special punchs & dies. I know the heating of the conductor to the melting point of the solder embrittles the copper wires, but I think the heat shrink tube supports the wires on My Cub Cadet O-K. I almost burned the 72 to the ground a year ago....the light switch vibrated for enough years to burn the contacts which burned the switch so that only two charred screw terminals were left connected to the wires but the wires were fine. The switch was replaced with one substantially higher rated and all metal encased. I do tend to substantially over-wire connections, almost everything gets 12 ga wire regardless of amp load. Weight isn't an issue like it would be in the Space Shuttle. The larger gauge wire is SO much stronger. Son & I learned this the hard way while R/C racing MANY years ago....We used a VERY limp silicon rubber insulated 12 ga copper wire on reciever battery packs but where the wire attached to the plug-in connectors the wire had to neck down to something like 26 ga.. I always reinforced that connection with two or three pieces of heat-shrink because WHEN, not IF, it broke You lost all throttle, brakes, and steering on Our gas cars.

 

[rwilke]

Jim E.,

Thanks for sharing all the good information! I didn't think about the use of both a resistor plug AND a resistor wire as 'not be a good thing'.

You also mentioned, "On single cylinder engines use resistor plugs and metallic wires if you want to reduce interfernce or to possibly enhance cold weather starting." Ok. Sounds good, makes sense to me.
But when I look at the OEM sparkplug listed for the K301 engine (as listed in the "sparkplug table"; Charlie's FAQ #26) is a Champion "H10C", I'm fairly sure this is NOT a resistor-type sparkplug.

However, according to:

http://www.championsparkplugs.com/results_appOther.asp?otherMotiveID=3673&mfid=2

they list both a "H10C" and a "RH10C" sparkplug as the applicable plug for a CC 1x6/9, which includes the K301 engine.

So it appears to me that if you, me or anyone with an older Kohler engine wants to suppress radio frequency interference (RFI) AND use a strong, tuff, solid core metallic sparkplug wire, then we could "Git-R-Dun" by using a Champion "RH10C" sparkplug.
Ryan W

 

[rjbean]

Hey guys,
I am a newbie, and haven't really had much to say, but I have been reading. I really have been getting a lot out of it. I will start on my 122 in the spring.

I do have one question..... What is the designation 1x6/9 mean? I have seen this and similar throughout the forum........

Thanks for relieving my ignorance.....

 

[dfrisk]

Randy - It's the abbreviation for models 73/106/126/107/127/147/86/108/128/109/129/149 & 169. In other words the last of the narrow frame and first version of the wide frame tractors.
I'd actually look for plug recommendations by the Kohler engine model number, K161, K181, K241, etc. There's been so many of these small engines that took the J-8 plugs replaced with larger engines that take the H10.

 

[digger]

Give me a good ole Magnecor wire and an Autolite 216 and I'm good to go.

 

[jegstad]

Dennis - to each his own. I use solid barrel crimps and heat shrink. If it is a split barrel crimp I will also solder it. I never crimp with a vise grips the crimpers on a cheap stripper/crimper have always worked OK for me. I saw to many connections break when watching them under a strobe light on a shaker table.

On small engines I use metalic wires and non-resistor plugs. I might be in danger if someone come up with a cruise missle that homes in on transmitters