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Archive through June 07, 2017
- Thread starter kmcconaughey
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Forum:
mgwin
Well-known member
Josh, beats me!!
You had an 800, what do you think??
You had an 800, what do you think??
Patrick, now that I'm home and done working in the garden I decided to check to see if the parts 107 that I have still had the part you need. It does.
Not sure how hard it is to remove but you can have it if you pay the shipping. I'll try to get it removed in the next few days. Did you need part #15 too?
Not sure how hard it is to remove but you can have it if you pay the shipping. I'll try to get it removed in the next few days. Did you need part #15 too?
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hydroharry
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 4,468
- displayname
- Harry Bursell
Brian W and Steve "Mr. Plow" - can we re-visit taking the 1250 to the parade?
Steve - my concern with your position is that Brian will be driving pretty slow and likely at less than full throttle - at least that's my parade experience. Would you recommend Brian at least run at full throttle or very close to it, so he gets the most air flow for engine cooling?
Otherwise, if you combine low speed travel, throttle at substantially less than full throttle (maybe just above idle), and 100 degree outdoor temps in a parade 2.5 miles long (maybe an hour or so) - I have to think this is pretty tough on the tractor.
If it was only 10-15 minutes I wouldn't be so concerned, but if it ends up being an hour, 90 minutes, or even 2 hours, and with less than ideal air flow, I think the engine will be pretty hot and any number of things could happen.
Course best solution is to make sure Brian runs at full throttle, no matter the noise he adds to the parade.
Charlie - dang it, my cousin is only couple hours away from Albert Lea. Ya, I know it was a gear drive but but but, for the right price
Steve - my concern with your position is that Brian will be driving pretty slow and likely at less than full throttle - at least that's my parade experience. Would you recommend Brian at least run at full throttle or very close to it, so he gets the most air flow for engine cooling?
Otherwise, if you combine low speed travel, throttle at substantially less than full throttle (maybe just above idle), and 100 degree outdoor temps in a parade 2.5 miles long (maybe an hour or so) - I have to think this is pretty tough on the tractor.
If it was only 10-15 minutes I wouldn't be so concerned, but if it ends up being an hour, 90 minutes, or even 2 hours, and with less than ideal air flow, I think the engine will be pretty hot and any number of things could happen.
Course best solution is to make sure Brian runs at full throttle, no matter the noise he adds to the parade.
Charlie - dang it, my cousin is only couple hours away from Albert Lea. Ya, I know it was a gear drive but but but, for the right price
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snicklas
Well-known member
I have to agree with Charlie.....
There are a few reasons......
1. If he is moving at a "walk" with just enough throttle to be able to pull whatever "float" he has been tasked to pull, the engine will not be making nearly the heat since there would be very little load on the engine.
2. Ambient air temperature vs "feels like" temperature is 2 very different things. Not sure if that 102 is a heat index temp, or actual air temperature. If it is a heat index temperature, and the actual air temperature is lets say the 90 that Charlie mentioned, that 90 degree air is what the engine sees for cooling. The heat index is what us humans feel like the temperature is because of the moisture in the air and how well, or not well the sweat evaporates from your skin.... a Kohler could give a fiddlers da*n about humidity. The Humidity is going to effect Brian much more than the tractor.
3. With all the tins in place on the engine, the cooling fins clean and the side panels INSTALLED, a Kohler moves a ton of air across the cooling surfaces of the engine (the head and around the jug). Plus having an intact muffler box, most of the heat will be blown out the grille by the airflow, rather than being trapped under the hood and inside the engine compartment.
4. Look carefully at the airflow path on a Quietline. I know Brian mention being concerned by having headlights, and that blocking some of the airflow exit. Almost no air is exhausted around the headlights. If everything is in place on the tractor, as it came from the factory (Tunnel Cover, Belly Pan, Firewall, Side Panels, Hood, ALL the tins on the engine, the aluminum plate for the muffler box, and all the tins that comprise the muffler box) the airflow is as follows:
"Cool" air is drawn from under the tractor and the area under the tunnel cover between the transmission and the belly pan, and I am sure some may even come from under the dash and the other cracks in the tower. Some air is blown back on the hydros by the fan on the driveshaft for the pump (it is more than you would expect, on Dad's 782 you can actually feel a breeze at the back of the tractor). The cool air then enters the flywheel/fan on the engine. At this point, all the air for cooling stays contained INSIDE the tins. With the firewall and the "gasket" around the firewall, it controls most of the air between the area above the engine, and the air under the dash. All the cooling air then leaves the PTO end of the engine from the engine tins, through the aluminum plate, and enters the muffler box. The shape of this box directs all the air that enters the box from the engine, out through the lower grille housing and grille, as does the muffler, direct the exhaust out the lower grille area also. If the muffler box is intact, there is no cooling air directed toward the upper grille housing / headlight area. Even at idle, there is a decent breeze coming from the lower grille area.
I know that Dad and I have over the decades had our Cubs idling around the yard doing landscape, cleanup, hauling or even fertilizing duty in all weather, hot and cold at much less that WOT and have not had issues. I am fairly confident if everything is in place as Brian has said... he should be just fine......
There are a few reasons......
1. If he is moving at a "walk" with just enough throttle to be able to pull whatever "float" he has been tasked to pull, the engine will not be making nearly the heat since there would be very little load on the engine.
2. Ambient air temperature vs "feels like" temperature is 2 very different things. Not sure if that 102 is a heat index temp, or actual air temperature. If it is a heat index temperature, and the actual air temperature is lets say the 90 that Charlie mentioned, that 90 degree air is what the engine sees for cooling. The heat index is what us humans feel like the temperature is because of the moisture in the air and how well, or not well the sweat evaporates from your skin.... a Kohler could give a fiddlers da*n about humidity. The Humidity is going to effect Brian much more than the tractor.
3. With all the tins in place on the engine, the cooling fins clean and the side panels INSTALLED, a Kohler moves a ton of air across the cooling surfaces of the engine (the head and around the jug). Plus having an intact muffler box, most of the heat will be blown out the grille by the airflow, rather than being trapped under the hood and inside the engine compartment.
4. Look carefully at the airflow path on a Quietline. I know Brian mention being concerned by having headlights, and that blocking some of the airflow exit. Almost no air is exhausted around the headlights. If everything is in place on the tractor, as it came from the factory (Tunnel Cover, Belly Pan, Firewall, Side Panels, Hood, ALL the tins on the engine, the aluminum plate for the muffler box, and all the tins that comprise the muffler box) the airflow is as follows:
"Cool" air is drawn from under the tractor and the area under the tunnel cover between the transmission and the belly pan, and I am sure some may even come from under the dash and the other cracks in the tower. Some air is blown back on the hydros by the fan on the driveshaft for the pump (it is more than you would expect, on Dad's 782 you can actually feel a breeze at the back of the tractor). The cool air then enters the flywheel/fan on the engine. At this point, all the air for cooling stays contained INSIDE the tins. With the firewall and the "gasket" around the firewall, it controls most of the air between the area above the engine, and the air under the dash. All the cooling air then leaves the PTO end of the engine from the engine tins, through the aluminum plate, and enters the muffler box. The shape of this box directs all the air that enters the box from the engine, out through the lower grille housing and grille, as does the muffler, direct the exhaust out the lower grille area also. If the muffler box is intact, there is no cooling air directed toward the upper grille housing / headlight area. Even at idle, there is a decent breeze coming from the lower grille area.
I know that Dad and I have over the decades had our Cubs idling around the yard doing landscape, cleanup, hauling or even fertilizing duty in all weather, hot and cold at much less that WOT and have not had issues. I am fairly confident if everything is in place as Brian has said... he should be just fine......
sblunier
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2006
- Messages
- 4,829
- displayname
- Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
Harry,
He is not going to hurt it in a parade......end of story.
Idle, part throttle, wide open, whatever...... it doesn't matter he won't hurt it. For all of the reasons below. It was built to mow etc. Under LOAD when hot.......tooling around on a parade at 90 or 100 won't hurt it one bit.
It will be much worse for him than the tractor!!!!
"IH, People who bring you machines that WORK "
He is not going to hurt it in a parade......end of story.
Idle, part throttle, wide open, whatever...... it doesn't matter he won't hurt it. For all of the reasons below. It was built to mow etc. Under LOAD when hot.......tooling around on a parade at 90 or 100 won't hurt it one bit.
It will be much worse for him than the tractor!!!!
"IH, People who bring you machines that WORK "
sblunier
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2006
- Messages
- 4,829
- displayname
- Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
....Actually, for all the talk we generate on here about Kohler engine cooling.......
Can anyone offer up a honest to goodness verified case when operating a properly tuned otherwise good condition Kohler at part throttle melted the engine down from under cooling????
I've never seen it......
Can anyone offer up a honest to goodness verified case when operating a properly tuned otherwise good condition Kohler at part throttle melted the engine down from under cooling????
I've never seen it......
Steve, I agree pulling a float should not hurt a standard Kohler. I also have not seen a Kohler melt down from heat but I have seen one damaged. My 129 has, or should I say had a killer Kohler rebuild done to it. That little 12 was keeping up with 149 and 169's at plow days. One day my brother-in-law decided to mow grass while I was at work. He did not get it all done so I finished when I got home. When done, he asked why I ran it WOT. I told him for cooling since this was a modified engine. He then told me he had ran it only half throttle when he mowed. The sad part is it started to burn oil and smoke shortly after that. He got it hot and took the temper out of the rings. But this was working hard mowing taller grass, not pulling a float.
Kraig-this maybe a topic for Friday but here it goes,could you scrounge up those pictures that digger (I think) posted of the IH service uniforms.My bosses wife is a seamstress and I'd like to ask her to make a "replica" of one of the shirts,thanks in advance
snicklas
Well-known member
Steve,
I think most of the issues I've heard of from overheating a normal, stock (thanks for pointing that out Wes) single or twin Kohler, or the other flavors of engine that have been in OT Cubs, is from a cooling obstruction. The two biggest offenders seem to be:
1. A critter making a nice new home. I think we all have had to dig a stinky, nasty, p**s filled mouse nest out of the tins on our Cubs (or other small engines) at least once.....
2. An oil leak, causing the cooling fins to become "sticky" and collect dust, dirt, clippings.... just about anything that goes through there and plugs the cooling passages between the fins......
I know the when it's dusty and dry, the dust kicked up by the deck seems to stick to everything, including me..... Normally, every few mowings, I take one of the small, seem to be blue handled air gun, and blow out all the dust I can get. You can get to a good part of the back of the jug and head on a Quietline if you take the rubber tube from the blower housing to the air cleaner out and put the nozzle in the hole in the blower housing.
I think the most common damage that I see on a Kohler is a rod/piston/rings failure due to either high run times (engine is tired), or lack of lubrication.... Our issues over the years have been a 782 mowing a ditch (before we knew better) or the 14's needing a rod/piston/rings due to 1500+ hours on the rebuild, or the 2 broken piston skirts the 14's seem to have. The other issues we have seen were shortly after purchase (like an hour or three of run time) with an unknown history. Dad's 1650 in his profile picture didn't make it 2 hours, and the 149 he posted about a few days ago had a cracked block when we bought it..... among other issues.
I think most of the issues I've heard of from overheating a normal, stock (thanks for pointing that out Wes) single or twin Kohler, or the other flavors of engine that have been in OT Cubs, is from a cooling obstruction. The two biggest offenders seem to be:
1. A critter making a nice new home. I think we all have had to dig a stinky, nasty, p**s filled mouse nest out of the tins on our Cubs (or other small engines) at least once.....
2. An oil leak, causing the cooling fins to become "sticky" and collect dust, dirt, clippings.... just about anything that goes through there and plugs the cooling passages between the fins......
I know the when it's dusty and dry, the dust kicked up by the deck seems to stick to everything, including me..... Normally, every few mowings, I take one of the small, seem to be blue handled air gun, and blow out all the dust I can get. You can get to a good part of the back of the jug and head on a Quietline if you take the rubber tube from the blower housing to the air cleaner out and put the nozzle in the hole in the blower housing.
I think the most common damage that I see on a Kohler is a rod/piston/rings failure due to either high run times (engine is tired), or lack of lubrication.... Our issues over the years have been a 782 mowing a ditch (before we knew better) or the 14's needing a rod/piston/rings due to 1500+ hours on the rebuild, or the 2 broken piston skirts the 14's seem to have. The other issues we have seen were shortly after purchase (like an hour or three of run time) with an unknown history. Dad's 1650 in his profile picture didn't make it 2 hours, and the 149 he posted about a few days ago had a cracked block when we bought it..... among other issues.
