Archive through June 02, 2014

[jchamberlin]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I'm going to sleep on it. I would like to see if fixing the flywheel and pulley resolves the knock. It only took me two hours to tear the motor down, and another two hours to get it out of the tractor. By-the-way, it was only held on by two bolts --the front ones, naturally. Notice the broken bolt, upper right.

(Picture was posted previously, but mis-identified as the breather.

)

 

[kostendorf]

I installed the tiller gearbox on the 1650 this morning and of course it started leaking so it cost me 72 dollars to fix the leak.

Is this the correct fluid? its had tsc fluid in it for a year, will the hytran mix with the little I won't be able to get out? And I was totally shocked when I walked in to the local Case IH store and they had the gasket in stock.

 

[dfrisk]

KEITH - A C/IH dealer I would expect to have the rear cover gasket for a CC. It's the same part as a Cub Farmall or LoBoy would have.

And Yes, Hy-Tran Ultraction replaces Hy-Tran Ultra.

 

[mfrade]

Jeremiah, I think you'd be remiss in not replacing the govenor, you'll put the block in danger of knocking in a window.

It's out, apart, and with some finagaling, you can get a govenor in and at least get some more hours out of it.. since it wasn't yet smoking...

my 2 cents anyway..

 

[hydroharry]

Jeremiah - well everyone is getting their 2cents in so here is mine. Unless I missed something your only suspicion of a Governor problem was due to the missing spring and the BIG OLE hole in the Goevernor arm. Since you have the pan off you should be able to see the internal Governor parts and make some determination if they appear ok or not. If they appear ok then I wouldn't disturb them at this point. Next thing I'd do is lap that exhaust valve seat to get it cleaned up good - looks to me like that could be what your lack of power could be, although it could have just been the hack job Governor linkage as well. You don't have any choice on fixing the flywheel, keyway and pulley stuff, but I think I'd stop there. I don't think I'd do any of the other internal stuff (rod and piston). Basically I'm saying fix the stuff that you know needs fixing - this is the basic and least costly. If the engine still has a knock problem when you're done, well, you can tear it apart again - but I have a feeling you'll be fine.

(By the way - I see you screwed the flywheel shroud bolts back into the bearing plate. Is this because you BTDT before and installed them incorrectly?)

 

[sblunier]

Jeremiah,

It didn;t have power because the governor wasn't opening the throttle under load.....AND if the governor was held back by the cable, there is a chance it could be damaged (I'm talking about the plastic gear and weight assembly INSIDE, not the arm outside....the arm is a simple fix). Why else would the cable get hooked directly to the arm if not for the fact that the governor quit working correctly, or was way out of adjustment?

As others have said, if it's down this far the governor should be inspected/replaced.....it's the one little tiny thing that can completely destroy the block when it let's go.

If the tractor was a "keeper" that was going to stay in my shed for a good long time it would have a new gov. gear installed....no questions asked.

 

[dcmay]

Another deal I just couldn't refuse and it ran when he put it in the shed last fall.An 1862 has 12v power to coil but no spark at the plugs.Does that tell me a bad coil?I have a wiring diagram that Jeremiah sent me but no coil shown on it.Viewed from right side of tractor,there is a ground blade on the right side of the coil with no wire on it.A white wire on the left side of the coil is where the 12v is coming to the coil.
The more help the merrier.
Dan

 

[mgwin]

Dan May,

On the topic page, third and fourth up from the bottom you will find the wiring diagrams and manual sections. You should be able to find out what you need there.

 

[jclazar]

Quick question: I removed my hydro pump from my 1250. I removed both check valves.

What would keep the big gear from turning? This is a learning opportunity, and want the pump to work should my 1450 give out.

I will read Charlie's FAQ # 73 for gasket replacement recommendations.

 

[hydroharry]

Steve B - "Mr Plow" - I guess I went out on a limb a little. Can you tell by "looking" at the internal Governor gear and weight assembly if it's ok or not? I made an assumption that you could by visual inspection.

Jeremiah - "hold your horses (all 12 of them)" before you consider my 2cents worth of advice, and wait until we hear from Steve B.

 

[pmorash]

Hi Everyone,
I picked up a 1964 Model 70 and am in the process of refurbishing it. Thanks to some forum sponsers, I have an engine kit, and a load parts coming from Kirk Engines. A question I have is what was the stock carb that would have come on a 1964 70? The stock engine had a broken connecting rod, so the P.O decided on a repower. I'm going to rebuild the stock motor which was included in the sale, but the carb is not there. I'm going to place an ad in the wanted section, should I look for the stock carb, or is there a better alternative?
Thanks
Paul

 

[jclazar]

Hello Paul!

side note: Please disregard my last question. I found out someone must have pulled the hydro 1250 I have with out correctly disengaging the manual check valves. There are many broken pieces in the lower part of the pump.

 

[sblunier]

Governor gears:

The governor gear on a Kohler is made of polymer (plastic) with metal weights that fly out against spring force and in turn push on a steel plunger that actuates the paddle on the governor arm, controlling the engine speed under varying loads.

This image (stolen from another forum member in a search) shows one that looks good, but has a stuck weight (wouldn't "fly out"). They are known to crack at the roll pins and launch a weight into the rotating mass as well.

With the engine this far apart, and a suspected speed control issue (messed up linkage) are you willing to risk the engine on the health of a +45 year old plastic part known to fail and difficult to thoroughly inspect with out the next step of disassembly?

I personally replace the governor gear in every Kohler I have to tear down, purely as a matter of precaution........like installing a new valve stem or tube with a new tire.

 

[hydroharry]

Steve B - "Mr Plow". That's great info on the Governor. I knew they were made with a plastic gear but was not aware they were known crack and fail. I had heard of people replacing them with a metal gear verion so I guess I should have put 2 and 2 together. I had just figured the teeth on the plastic versions failed, not the weight mounts. Thanks for the details. I think it will be helpful to Jeremiah and many others on here. (But as an aside, I never replace the valve stems when I replace the tires. I think that's the biggest ripoff in the replacement tire industry).

Jeremiah - I'm revising my 2cent position. Better pull the Governor while you've got the pan off and based on Steve's info I'd replace it as a precaution. Maybe you can get the metal gear version.

 

[jchamberlin]

Steve, Harry (and Don), I think I'll replace the governor, but I'm going to try to do so without removing the piston, crank, and cam (if that is possible). After tearing into an M18 which had its governor let go, I believe in at least getting this part right. If the engine has substantial blow-by, and/or smokes I will use it sparingly; if it still knocks, then it will get torn down again and get completely rebuilt.

Please note that I already qualify for free shipping from Cub Cadet Specialties with all the parts I know need replacing right now --without touching the rod, piston, rings and machine work.

And yes, Harry, I will lap the exhaust valve in too.

Again, thanks for all the feedback, especially Mr. Blunier who seems to have my best interest at heart.

To those who say it should be "done right" --it should; but a full rebuild is risky because the break-in has to come out right too, and I'm not yet clear on how this critical period should best be handled.

Edit 1: Harry, we are in agreement, then.

Edit 2: As an aside, I'm pretty sure this engine was never opened up, because it took a LOT to get the oil pan off. So I don't think the governor has disintegrated and the evidence covered up. Instead, what I think happened is that the engine was partially disassembled for painting, and when it came time to put it back together "Johnny" couldn't figure out where all the parts went for the linkage, and so he did the best he could, based on what he could find on the web, etc. (He got the "second hole" part right

.) If I don't find all of the parts of the governor still in the motor, then I'm wrong. But I think I'll find what appears to be a fully functioning governor on the INSIDE of the motor, at least. Stay tuned.

 

[hydroharry]

Jeremiah - yup, I'm with ya. Don T claimed he replaced his Governor gear thru the cam cover hole. I'm confident you can do yours with the pan off and some similar effort.

 

[tbdavis]

Thank you Dennis for addressing my 100 grill question. Think I have everything needed to mount it so should be good to go.

 

[dtanner]

Harry Bursell

I have to set you straight on the governor gear . I had my 12K upside down and bent wire in a hook and lowered the governor gear down and used another section of wire though the cam cover part of the block to push the gear on the stud . It took a few tries but after I got the wire bent correctly I could have done 5 after in a few seconds. Don`t forget the washer on the stud goes on before the gear.

When I reringed my 129 engine I got a kit that had gaskets and a new governor . I bubble honed the cylinder and end gapped and installed the rings and used the new governor. I could not get the cub working with the new governor and had to remove it and install a metal governor. the plastic one looks perfect but did not work .After the metal governor was installed and new head gasket the Cub was broke in as a new rebuild. I pulled a drag loaded with rocks and got the K hot. cooled the engine down and torqued the head again and put the cub to the drag again till it got hot again. I have used this method on every rebuild I have done (4) and find they love it and I get great working engines that don`t use oil .

 

[fcurrier]

Paul M.: Interesting question on the carb for the 70. I'd have thought that the k161 and k181 would take the same carb, but the parts lookup I use says the k161 is NLA but the k181 is # KH 41 853 08. Hang in there, someone here has an answer.

 

[kostendorf]

I changed the filter, Hytran and new gasket. Got the tiller gearbox on and no leaks so I put the deck on and killed some grass, tall grass I haven't cut till now. This cub can cut some grass!
And looks good doing it. Now I'm going to modify my sleeve hitch to work around the gearbox. Any ideas without spending money?