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Archive through August 23, 2017
- Thread starter kmcconaughey
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Forum:
Carson, I believe David is correct in that you cannot see the brake assembly from the top. Here's a cutaway view to show how they are in there. I also will second David's recommendation to check the adjustment of them first. Unfortunately the Service Manuals do not show much info on the brakes for the Hydrostatic Cub Cadets.
Attachments
snicklas
Well-known member
David,
I agree with Kraig, that it's sandwiched between the two. I don't remember seeing it with the hood open. I would double check, but I only have Quietlines at the house. If Dad sees this, maybe he can confirm, since he has the wide frames over there.......
I agree with Kraig, that it's sandwiched between the two. I don't remember seeing it with the hood open. I would double check, but I only have Quietlines at the house. If Dad sees this, maybe he can confirm, since he has the wide frames over there.......
Carson,
The brake pucks are below the pinion drive shaft c/t the lower part of the big gear and apply force to the gear faces for braking (See Kraig's picture below.) If you don't have brakes when you depress the brake pedal, adjustment is needed. There is an adjustment screw on the brake rockshaft. Refer to your owners manual for adjustment instructions. You should be able to see the brake pucks once you know where to look and with a light source.
Since you have recently replace the cork gasket on the hydro pump and you believe it is no longer leaking, the next source of a leak would likely be the O-ring on the front brake plug (Ref. Kraig's picture). It will need to be replaced.
I believe you can remove the brake plug without removal of the freeze plug and disassembly/removal of the pinion shaft. The toughest part will likely be removal of the inner shaft c/t the cast iron brake rockshaft arm just fwd of the plug. Often the inner shaft is rusted tight to the cast rockshaft. I had to remove the transmission and put it in a press to get it out on my No. 2 782 some years ago. It wouldn't budge no matter how many times I hit it with a BFH, plus I don't like banging on cast iron as it can easily break. Maybe yours won't be as stubborn. There is a roll pin you will need to drive out first that goes through the cast rock shaft and inner shaft.
Once you have the brake rockshaft removed, take time to thoroughly clean the outer bore periphery of the brake plug hole bore to remove any dirt, rust and paint so the plug can be pushed fwd and not jamb up in the hole. You have already discovered that the big drive gear moves fore/aft on the pinion shaft. Using two pry bars on each side of the gear, carefully push it fwd as far as it will go which will also push the plug fwd. Once you get some clearance between the gear and the plug you should be able to get a small screw driver down between the gear and plug to continue pushing the plug on out. If that doesn't work, insert flat washers in the gap between the gear & plug and push the gear fwd again with the pry bars. Once the plug is far enough fwd you should be able to grab the fwd part of the plug with a pliers or vice grip at the center hole to pull it on out. Inspect the brake puck for any damage and replace if necessary. The rear puck sets in a shallow recess bore in the casting on the aft side of the gear. Make sure it's in place and hasn't fallen out. Clean up the plug and hole bore, install a new O-ring and coat with Vaseline to prevent damage and reinstall.
You will find this approach much easier than removing the freeze plug and removing the pinion shaft. BTDT Also don't use a chisel and hammer for removal of the freeze plug, as you will likely damage the pinion shaft. Got the tee shirt for that mistake too! Just drill a hole in the plug near the outer edge and pry it out with a screwdriver.
Hope this helps.
The brake pucks are below the pinion drive shaft c/t the lower part of the big gear and apply force to the gear faces for braking (See Kraig's picture below.) If you don't have brakes when you depress the brake pedal, adjustment is needed. There is an adjustment screw on the brake rockshaft. Refer to your owners manual for adjustment instructions. You should be able to see the brake pucks once you know where to look and with a light source.
Since you have recently replace the cork gasket on the hydro pump and you believe it is no longer leaking, the next source of a leak would likely be the O-ring on the front brake plug (Ref. Kraig's picture). It will need to be replaced.
I believe you can remove the brake plug without removal of the freeze plug and disassembly/removal of the pinion shaft. The toughest part will likely be removal of the inner shaft c/t the cast iron brake rockshaft arm just fwd of the plug. Often the inner shaft is rusted tight to the cast rockshaft. I had to remove the transmission and put it in a press to get it out on my No. 2 782 some years ago. It wouldn't budge no matter how many times I hit it with a BFH, plus I don't like banging on cast iron as it can easily break. Maybe yours won't be as stubborn. There is a roll pin you will need to drive out first that goes through the cast rock shaft and inner shaft.
Once you have the brake rockshaft removed, take time to thoroughly clean the outer bore periphery of the brake plug hole bore to remove any dirt, rust and paint so the plug can be pushed fwd and not jamb up in the hole. You have already discovered that the big drive gear moves fore/aft on the pinion shaft. Using two pry bars on each side of the gear, carefully push it fwd as far as it will go which will also push the plug fwd. Once you get some clearance between the gear and the plug you should be able to get a small screw driver down between the gear and plug to continue pushing the plug on out. If that doesn't work, insert flat washers in the gap between the gear & plug and push the gear fwd again with the pry bars. Once the plug is far enough fwd you should be able to grab the fwd part of the plug with a pliers or vice grip at the center hole to pull it on out. Inspect the brake puck for any damage and replace if necessary. The rear puck sets in a shallow recess bore in the casting on the aft side of the gear. Make sure it's in place and hasn't fallen out. Clean up the plug and hole bore, install a new O-ring and coat with Vaseline to prevent damage and reinstall.
You will find this approach much easier than removing the freeze plug and removing the pinion shaft. BTDT Also don't use a chisel and hammer for removal of the freeze plug, as you will likely damage the pinion shaft. Got the tee shirt for that mistake too! Just drill a hole in the plug near the outer edge and pry it out with a screwdriver.
Hope this helps.
Here is my damper spring plate assembly (703-0194) next to my trunnion shaft assembly (SU-3103181). Yes, I'm 99.999% certain it is on backwards.
Charlie, thank you for your comments. When I flip this around so the side showing is against the trunnion, what fills in the space that looks like a washer goes in there? Nothing? The width of this plate is a snug fit when I flip this around and put on the retaining clip, but I can't figure out what this space is for, TC-157 shows nothing here. I think it's machined so it has to be for something....? Can you clarify?
Charlie, thank you for your comments. When I flip this around so the side showing is against the trunnion, what fills in the space that looks like a washer goes in there? Nothing? The width of this plate is a snug fit when I flip this around and put on the retaining clip, but I can't figure out what this space is for, TC-157 shows nothing here. I think it's machined so it has to be for something....? Can you clarify?
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Ron R. Schmitt, Thanks for your advice. While looking things over as you suggested, I saw a support on the side of the frame that didn't have a bolt in it. When I looked on the opposite side, the support had a bolt in it but it was loose. Long story short, the missing and loose hardware allowed enough hydro pump sag to throw the drive shaft alignment off. Installed 2 new bolts which raised the hydro pump to its proper position, and everything else pretty much fell into place. Thanks for your help, Ron.
David:
I can see the back puck with the top cover off the rear end. Both pucks look to be in good condition. The front one looks like new.
Kraig:
Thanks for posting the great drawing of the Hydro rear end with brakes. I looked thru all my stuff and could not find that drawing. It clarifies for me the action of the brake pucks against the gear and that the brake disk assembly is not used in this brake set up. Ron’s comments support the use of the pucks against the gear faces.
Ron:
The bore that the front plug rides in looks smooth and I removed some paint from the front end of the bore. The outside of the plug has some ridges and seems to fit well in the bore. I think the o-ring has hardened with age and is the cause of the leakage from the rear end. It may also be preventing the plug from moving easily in the bore. So I will replace it.
Current plan is to clean everything up and replace the o-ring (lube the o-ring when installed). I will make sure the plug travels easily in bore and the lever activates the brake pucks. Then reassemble the tractor and see how it works. I need to order some parts so it will take a bit to get things cleaned up and ready to go.
I would like to thank everyone for their advice and the information provided.
I can see the back puck with the top cover off the rear end. Both pucks look to be in good condition. The front one looks like new.
Kraig:
Thanks for posting the great drawing of the Hydro rear end with brakes. I looked thru all my stuff and could not find that drawing. It clarifies for me the action of the brake pucks against the gear and that the brake disk assembly is not used in this brake set up. Ron’s comments support the use of the pucks against the gear faces.
Ron:
The bore that the front plug rides in looks smooth and I removed some paint from the front end of the bore. The outside of the plug has some ridges and seems to fit well in the bore. I think the o-ring has hardened with age and is the cause of the leakage from the rear end. It may also be preventing the plug from moving easily in the bore. So I will replace it.
Current plan is to clean everything up and replace the o-ring (lube the o-ring when installed). I will make sure the plug travels easily in bore and the lever activates the brake pucks. Then reassemble the tractor and see how it works. I need to order some parts so it will take a bit to get things cleaned up and ready to go.
I would like to thank everyone for their advice and the information provided.
David, thanks for the photo. It helped with my problems and I hope to make progress this weekend. I wonder if I can recycle the hytran if I do something wrong and have to drain it right away?
George-
What David said is correct IMO plus there is a nylon bushing on the 1/2" post of the lower cam bracket. You probably need shims. I get mine from McMaster-Carr and get both 1/2" and 5/8" ID in a couple different thicknesses.
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What David said is correct IMO plus there is a nylon bushing on the 1/2" post of the lower cam bracket. You probably need shims. I get mine from McMaster-Carr and get both 1/2" and 5/8" ID in a couple different thicknesses.
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George -
Here's me shimming and putting mine back together a couple of weeks ago.
https://youtu.be/clP7ZmNvURg
Here's me shimming and putting mine back together a couple of weeks ago.
https://youtu.be/clP7ZmNvURg
Thanks David, I liked both videos. Do you use pipe tape or dope on any of your hydro threaded connections? I've read both sides of the argument, but would like your opinion too. I ordered some hydro parts from CC Specialties at the top of the page and was happy with the prices and fast shipping.
Wayne, I'll check out the sponsors up top for some shims. Thanks for reminding they are different diameters. Hey, how did your rebuild turn out?
Wayne, I'll check out the sponsors up top for some shims. Thanks for reminding they are different diameters. Hey, how did your rebuild turn out?
jnicklas
Well-known member
David, I checked a 149,1450and 1650 and all have the hinge on the outside not sandwiched like the picture Kraig posted of Harry's 169. I also agree with Michael, It won't lay flat.
George-
Davids video showed exactly what you want to achieve...as little "wiggle" as possible. I will add I have had situations like in his video and I just use a machined washer instead of that many shims. It's a little cost saver and cuts down on the use of so many shims. You asked how my "rebuild" came out well, I've cleaned and replaced seals on several pumps but I haven't got anything going at present. These Sundstrand pumps are tuff and I think I've only replaced a valve plate in one.
.
Davids video showed exactly what you want to achieve...as little "wiggle" as possible. I will add I have had situations like in his video and I just use a machined washer instead of that many shims. It's a little cost saver and cuts down on the use of so many shims. You asked how my "rebuild" came out well, I've cleaned and replaced seals on several pumps but I haven't got anything going at present. These Sundstrand pumps are tuff and I think I've only replaced a valve plate in one.
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hydroharry
Well-known member
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- Harry Bursell
Kraig - Oh Great One, Keeper of the Photos. "Chief of the Correct Police". I ain't even a dues payin' member.
OK guys, I know having the hinge sandwiched in between the panel and the nose piece may not seem correct, but I confirmed along time ago with Jim Chabot, CC Museum Curator. I seem to recall there is something about not sandwiching it that you can't see or tell it's wrong until you do it. I'll have to see if I can find or figure out what it might be. It might be something to do with the ends of the hinge (where there are bolt holes but no bolts).
P.S. - Kraig, can you do something about the CC Federal Yellow in that pic. I can assure you the color on the tractor is correct. Don't know why the pic has just seemed to fade.
OK guys, I know having the hinge sandwiched in between the panel and the nose piece may not seem correct, but I confirmed along time ago with Jim Chabot, CC Museum Curator. I seem to recall there is something about not sandwiching it that you can't see or tell it's wrong until you do it. I'll have to see if I can find or figure out what it might be. It might be something to do with the ends of the hinge (where there are bolt holes but no bolts).
P.S. - Kraig, can you do something about the CC Federal Yellow in that pic. I can assure you the color on the tractor is correct. Don't know why the pic has just seemed to fade.
