580 with briggs

[fschmitz]

Hey guys i just picked up a 84' 580 that didnt run for 100$ It was low on oil and wouldnt turn over with a socket easily so i tore it down. the one rod was starting to sieze to the crank. whats a good parts source for the 16hp twin L head briggs?
This is going to be a loader project for me so i wont need some stuff. ill post it in the classifieds soon

 

[fschmitz]

Well i got the engine back together and all seems well. Carb and fuel pump were full of jelly so i cleaned it out and she runs. Now i have to start gathering parts for the loader.

 

[sblunier]

Surprisingly the 656cc Briggs 16hp engines aren't too bad of runners. They tend to burn oil if the breathers aren't clean and 100% functioning (low tolerance for any errors here), but make decent power and run smooth and quiet. I am impressed with mine.

 

[hsimon]

I've been happy with the two 582's that I have with the 16hp Briggs in them, good stout engines that can take a lot of abuse. I would say they are equal to the K series that is in the 782 but don't have the lubrication "issues" that the Series 1 had.

 

[fschmitz]

I believe mine is a series I. ive been checking ebay for a spare or even a repower just in case. I wonder how many rebuilds or engines it been through in the 4000 hours it has.

 

[mgonitzke]

Frank S.-

The "series I" and "series II" designations only apply to the Kohler KT series engines, not the briggs in your 580.

 

[fschmitz]

Actually The Briggs does have two series. a twin I and twin II. you can tell the difference by the intake manifold. A Twin I has mounting holes for the governer bracket unlike a twin II. these manifolds are not interchangeable.
Twin I are splash lube and II's are pressure lube also.
BTW nice tractors MATT. Love that Diesel.
I also thought about removing the brake from the clutch petal and adding separate brakes. I think foot throttle is coming first though.

 

[twthompson]

I recently purchased and 580 with the briggs 16hp. I was told that after running for a while the motor will loose power. I have only run it 15 to 20 minutes at a time but it seems to be running fine. It's seeping pretty badly around the head gaskets and it's VERY, VERY dirty. I have never seen cooling fins so plugged up. I guess that goes with the leaking. I haven't pulled the heads yet but I wondering how far I should go with this. Should I buy a kit and rebuild the engine. Can these be bored? I have always heard that there was no need to change the piston and rings without reworking the cylinders. Any thought on this? It's got 2469 hours on it. What do you think causes the engine to loose power? Maybe heat related? I appreciate any thoughts/advise on this. Thanks

 

[nbextermueller]

Tim,

Glad to see you we're looking around for answers. This thread is quite old. Feel free to start a new one in this section if and when you start working on it.

As for the power issue, it is most definately heat related. But 2400+ hrs is also a lot for an engine that clearly wasn't maintained. The seeping at the heads is probably a blown head gasket or 2. They most likely blew from overheating due to the plugged up fins. The heads could also be warped from the heat too. The best way to check is too pull them off, lay a piece of 400 grit sand paper on a piece of glass (sandy side up), and rub the piston side on the paper gently until you get a good pattern on the head. You'll be able to see real quick what sanding and what's not. If there are big "not sanded parts" they are warped. You can actually true them up (make them flat again) by just continuing the sanding until its nice and shiny. Replace paper as needed.

While the heads are off, check the cylinders. Are there big ridges at the top? Lots of scratches on one or both sides of the cylinder? If there are, it's past it's prime. This probably the main cause of the lost power over time. When the engine gets up to temperature, tolerances go all out of whack and it looses lots of compression.

At that point it will need to be bored. But take it to a shop to have it measured first. You can't be sure a .010 over bore will remove all the worn areas. It might need a .020 (.030 is not available for that engine)

But first off, pull the heads, true them up, and slap on some new gaskets. Put it back together and clean out the fins. And try it out. If your still loosing to much power after 30min-1hr. Line up your ducks for a rebuild.

 

[sblunier]

Before rebuilding, look at the repower options. By the time you get all of the work done you could have most of the cost of a repower kit into an obsolete engine.

M18 is a direct bolt in option as they installed these in the 1806 and any kit that replaces the KT17/M18 in a 682/782 should be adaptable to the 582 platform.

Might also have a exhaust valve starting to hang up with increase heat causing the engine to loose compression on one cylinder (1/2 power)

 

[twthompson]

Nic and Steve,

Thanks for the suggestions. I am going to pull the heads and take a look. I may be back. I have recently rebuilt a Kohler 12 and reworked an Farmall 560 diesel several years back. It's a nice break from my day job. If we get there ...I am inclined to rebuild vs repower. I am thinking that it's a lot less $$$$. Thanks Again.

 

[twthompson]

I am back. I pulled the heads tonight. Looks like I found my problem. The head bolts were not very tight. I also found a loose valve seat on one of the intake valves. The cylinders walls looked pretty good. When I cycled the engine I was surprised that a reasonable amount of oil was coming through the rings. Now I am wondering if I should replace the rings? Any advise on the rings and on how to secure the valve seat. I measured the cylinder and it was 3.423 inches. I did a good bit of searching but have not been able to determine if this is a standard bore? Does anyone know what was standard bore was on this engine. Model is 402437-0698-01. Thanks

 

[sblunier]

Bore: 3.4365-3.4375" Reject @ 3.4405"
Out of round: .0025" AL Bore, .0015" CI bore
Main Bearing: 1.379-1.380" Reject @ 1.383"
Cam Bearing: .6252-.6257" Reject @ .6275"
Valve Guide: .3145-.3165" Reject @ .330"
Valve Stem: .310" Reject @ .308"
Crank pin: 1.6235-1.6243" Reject @ 1.622"
Crank Journal: 1.3776-1.3784" Reject @ 1.376"
Rod bearing: 1.625-1.6255" Reject @ 1.627"
Wrist pin (rod): .8007-.8011" Reject @ .802"

Ring Gap (all): .007-.017"
Reject @.035" top/center, .045" oil AL bore
.030" top/center and .035" oil CI bore.

Crank endplay: .004-.012"
plug gap: .030"

valve clearance, cold:

w/springs:
intake: .004-.006"
exhaust: .007-.009"

w/o springs:
intake: .006-.008"
exhaust: .009-.011"

Rod torque: 190 in lb
head torque: 160 in lb
Flywheel: 150 ft lb
Plug: 200 in lb

idle speed 1200-1400 rpm
max 3600 rpm
Displacement 40 in3 or 656 cc
RPM @ max power = 3350
Peak torque at 2800 rpm = 25.8 ft lb
piston speed at 3600 rpm = 1294 ft/min

 

[sblunier]

I re-ringed the engine in the pics below, installed new valves, rebuilt the carb, replaced the V/R......and then pulled the living snot out of it on a Brinly plow at several PD's.

Sold it to make room for a SGT, and it is honestly one I regret selling (but not because I didn't want the SGT!!!!

) They are neat tractors, that pull right with a 6 or 782 and run very well (especially considering that #$%^ pulse jet carb/fuel pump.