3184 Spring Tune Up

[bbranstetter]

Ok, Stuck my foot into it and volunteered to work on my father-in-laws 3184. He complained how it wouldn't start and that was after the Cub Mechanic got done charging him for a new key switch that it didn't need

. He had been fighting it all last season and I told him that it wouldn't be a big deal to track it down. It took me about five minutes with a meter to find that the plug, before the solenoid, was packed full of dirt muckin' up the conection.

A little electo wash and some valve grinding compound should do the trick. A little silicone around the back side of the connectors should help keep the dirt out.

That and this thing is sllloooowwwww compared to my 122. I planned on changing the filter and fluid but this thing is a dog compaired to my little IH. It feels like my 122 does wound out in second gear, is this normal??

 

[bbranstetter]

Whats up with this, not enough clearance for the rod end??? Why isn't the rod bolted from the bottom of the arm?

 

[kmcconaughey]

Brian, is your F-I-L's yard uneven? On a fairly level yard that shouldn't rub, if however it's being driven over gopher mounds or bumpy ground it's bound to hit. I use (OK I abuse) my 125 on some really rough uneven ground and I've had a front tire up in the air on many occasions.

 

[kweaver]

Brian - My 2166 is alot slower than any of my older cubs.

 

[lbuttke]

Brian,

I have a 3235 and it is way slower than any of my IH cub cadets.
Side by side with my old IH 123 comparason, the 123 out runs the 3235.

I think MTD slowed them down for saftey reasons.

 

[agitch]

Brian,

That really erks me when dealers that are paid to know about their products don't properly troubleshoot problems. My dealer replaced a carburetor and ignition switch to fix a misfire problem and it didn't fix it. Needless to say I chewed him a new one and troubleshot it myself and discovered the #1 intake valve stem seal was trashed and causing it not to fire properly.

 

[bbranstetter]

Kraig
F-I-L's yard is pretty flat with one ditch bank but nothing that I would think that would be enough to cause a rubbing problem. I'll have to check that out and see if moving that rod end would help or hurt.

Adrian
I agree, the amount that they charged and didn't even bother to roll it over a few times before he picked it up. I don't get it. So much for getting what you paid for.

Ken
This slow motion thing sucks. I think the old 122 would do circles around this thing. Makes me glad that mine still says IH on the hood. The stinkin FUN POLICE get involved and BLAMO, everything gets ruined!

A couple of good things though, this thing has got one heck of a nice frame on it. I really was impressed by the steering radius and how easy it was to remove the side panels. The power steering uses a lot less effort than my Dad's 318.

 

[bbranstetter]

Well after a little more investigating I found that the solenoid is drawing around 11 to 12 amps, not for the starter just the solenoid. After checking my voltage I was getting a 5 volt drop, 7.4 but unhooked I was getting full battery voltage. The connectors have been cleaned and tightened but the starter switch may have been damaged from the excessive load caused from the bad connection. I'm thinking that putting a relay in the circuit would prevent any more chances of switches being damaged. Or at least I'm thinking that this would be a permenant solution.

 

[bbranstetter]

Well the repair for the starter problem is complete. Added one pilot relay in the circuit and siliconed all the connections shut after I added some dielectric grease to all the connections. This should do the trick.

 

[bbranstetter]

Ok, I thought it was strange how slow this thing would go but now I know something is wrong. Took Connie for a ride with the trailer hooked up to the back, maybe 1/4 full of rocks. My 122 Cub would not even know it was back there but this thing was a dog going up the hill here in town but I just wrote that off. Got back to the garage and pulled the plug on the rear end and I thought my eyes were going to start burning from the smell of that oil, it really smelled burnt. It was a brownish black color

. I'm wondering if it's ever been changed at all? What color is 'Cub' hydro oil, I bought all OEM stuff so I guess I'll see in a little while.

 

[bbranstetter]

Wow! Look at the plugs I just pulled out the other day. I hope these have been in there awhile, otherwise I'm wondering what has been going on. What do you guys think?

 

[kmcconaughey]

Brian, have your F-I-L start using MMO....

 

[stritle]

That's what both of my plugs looked like (the one on the left), and she started smoking after mowing my first time. Now it idles rough and has a slight knock when shutting it off.

Worse part is that I bought this one due to my other one having a bad motor. The friend that owned it had not run it much, though I blew snow with it fine all winter.

 

[bbranstetter]

I just have to update this thread a little. Got my FIL's Cub back to do some fall winterizing and he was complaining of how bad the tractor ran. He changed his own engine oil and air filter this last spring so I didn't get to see it prior. So when this fall came around I just figured I do blades, engine oil and hydrostat and be ready for spring.

Went to warm up the motor and rear end by mowing some leaves and didn't think it was going to have enough power to turn the blades. So back to the garage I went to see if the throttle cable needed adjusting, it was at this point that I pulled the spark plugs. The right hand plug came out with a black chunk on the end, it was totally fouled with back goo and hard carbon. After pulling shrouds and looking around there is no doubt that either a ring or valve guide has failed and possible cylinder damage has occured.

A little more carefull examination of the intake side reviled that very fine sand had migrated through the seal under the air filter. It seems that the FIL's very dusty conditions has been the main contribution to this engines failure. The filter element looked like it had contact all the way around on the top and bottom but you could see the 'contrails' of grit, on the bottom of the plentum, to prove otherwise.

There is no way that I've got enough experiance with the internals of these newer twin cylinders to be rebuilding the motor myself. If it was for my personal use I might try but I'm not going to waste someone else's money on my experiment. I'm thinking a new motor and upgrading the engine filtration to the commercial style canister filter as a solution to the high dust condition that he faces.

Just to give you an idea of how dusty his lawn gets, he wears out a set of mower blades in a single season. The blades come out sharper than they go in and look like skinning knifes.

The tractor only has around 630 hours on it and is around ten years old. This is going to be a pain for sure.

 

[bbranstetter]

OK, I know that the motor is probably trashed and need of rebuild or replacement but which would you do? I called a site sponsor and he suggested a new long block and mentioned that his shop doesn't like to mess with the newer twins.

So, to get the FIL going, I'm going to do a little cleaning and add a little engine restore to the oil and do a normal service. I told him that if the tractor were mine I would run it that way as long as it can and then make a decision later down the road. Maybe it will make it a season or two and maybe it won't. Just hate to see him spend $1500 for a new motor. The root cause is he needs to fix his lawn by adding some top soil and getting the grass to grow which would keep the dust down. The tractor should probably have one of those industrial Donaldson filter kits put on as well.

Feel free to chime in here.

 

[proessler]

Brian, Check parts list for air filter assembly,are all parts there? Looks to be prefilter/Foam on the listing. In my manual for my 23hp Command ,it states *Check air cleaner Daily*, Wash & reoil precleaner every 25 hours of operation or more often under extremely dusty or dirty conditions.Cleaning air fliter after each mowing would be prudent maintenance as well as more frequent oil/filter changes in those conditions...

I think U could tackle that Command & do a rebuild.

 

[bbranstetter]

Paul,

Thanks for the vote of confidence! Yes, you are certainly correct about the note on cleaning the filter unit. The only problem is keeping my FIL on the ball with maintenance issues. I've got to get a shop in order to even think about replacing an engine let alone rebuild. Guess will get it squared away for this season and see what comes of this fall. Maybe I'll buy a shop manual for it and price out the parts.

 

[bbranstetter]

Has anyone ever tore down one of these CH series Kohler engines? Would it be any more or less complicated than the KT series?

FIL bought a new machine and I might be able to buy this one. The parts are way less expensive for this engine.

 

[bjamison]

Brian - it might be worth a try, but here's what I think I know.

I've got another color tractor (Simplicity Sovereign) and it has a Kohler Command twin cylinder 18 hp engine in it. I think they are great engines, but I had to change the head gaskets on mine and broke a lot of screws getting the tin off, etc. It was a chore replacing this head gasket with all the stuff I had to do to get to it in the first place.

A lot of the Simplicity guys, for these aluminum twin cylinder engines - just repower. It doesn't have to be new. The horizontal shaft Kohler Command engines were used on a lot of MTD Cub Cadets and I see complete tractors on craigs list for sometimes $300ish. If you were to put a new engine in the tractor, I think you'd have a tractor that would last a long time. I realize these are not IHCC tractors, but I think they are pretty decent machines. I especially like the foot control hyro.

On another note, another color tractor I have is a Wheelhorse. One of them is a 520H and it has a 20 hp Onan horizontal shaft twin cylinder engine. This engine is either GREAT or it's a DISASTER. With the Wheelhorse guys, it seems there's no in between. The 520H, IMHO, just like the 3000 series MTD Cub Cadets and older Simplicity Sovereign garden trators are a great platform for a re-engine.

If you decide to rebuild - I'll be following that thread. I don't see much on rebuilding these Kohler Commands, so any posted info would be nice to have available.

Good luck!
Bill